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    EX-FORMER CRITICS
    Derek: Ning ME Apology
    & Other Materials

    PART I - APOLOGY TO M.E. NING GROUP

    For three years (2006-9) a former supporter (and briefly a member) of NCCG, became a voracious critic of this ministry and ran, in conjunction with a woman called 'NCCG-Concern', a hostile website (nccg.info) dedicated to the destruction of NCCG and the reputations of its leadership. In July 2009 a prophetic vision about him was fulfilled along with several other prophecies.

    In November 2008 he joined the Messianic Evangelical Ning Network under the false name 'Isaiah Kaufman' with the purpose of infiltrating it. In early July 2009 Yahweh broke into his troubled soul and spoke to his heart. He met Yah'shua the Messiah (Jesus Christ) in a new way, was born again, and overcame most of his doubts and issues that had led him away from faith and briefly into atheism. On Friday 10 July 2009 he posted the following Public Apology in the Network entitled, Imposter in Your Midst (see below) as his first step in the process of making things right with Yahweh and with his brethren and sisters.

    As part of his repentance, Derek took down the website he made (nccg.info) on his own initiative as the webspace owner, along with everything he had written. The domain owner, 'NCCG-Concern', transferred the domain to another ISP and restored an earlier version of these materials on 13 July 2009 minus the materials that Derek had formerly contributed.

    This webpage is furthermore a statement by NCCG/MLT that Derek has been restored to fellowship as a true believer in Yah'shua the Messiah.

    For Derek's current testimony, please see the material that follows.

    PUBLIC STATEMENT POSTED IN
    MESSIANIC EVANGELICALS NETWORK

    I wanted to come clean on this group, so that people might know that I have been dishonest and that I am deeply sorry for sneaking into this group the way I have and hurting people the way I did.

    My name is Derek and I have been against this ministry for a while. While I am still unsure on many doctrines, I just wanted to tell people how I believe the Lord is changing my heart on many issues.

    Over the last month, I lost someone dear to me, but I knew from a dream I had months ago that it was going to happen. And it happened, just the way the dream said it would. Yahweh gave me many dreams about this person and showed me their demons and how he was using this person to prepare me, but I was stubborn and in the end, may have cost them their salvation. But I also believe that Yahweh is sovereign and is in control and will work on their heart in his due time.

    It was over the course of this last year that I have had many of my sin issues revealed to me in all their horror -- my lust, my pride, all the evil things I've done . . . and no matter what I feel about this ministry or its doctrines (I'm undecided now), I have acted less than civil. I want the forgiveness from those I have hurt from my sins, although I also realize that's going to take some time and work on my end.

    I thought I would come clean with this post, because no matter what happens to me, I cannot lie anymore. I'm going to change my profile now, and if Lev wants to delete me, that is his decision. I just don't want to hurt people anymore. I have hurt too many people over these last few years. My doctors said it was my frontal lobe syndrome but I do not believe that. Three years ago, I had a dream where I was told explicitly my life would fall apart. And it did. But I believe it is due to Yahweh's grace and mercy that it did, because now that reality is hitting me in the face, I realize I cannot continue to do what I have been doing anymore.

    I have also sent Lev some IMs on Yahoo. I do not know if he got them, but I explain a lot more issues on there.

    And also Bud, I am sorry for the things I said about you a few years ago. I have deleted my site. I don't own the domain, so I can't promise things won't go back up, but I do own the web space and am trying to make amends amicably.

    As for Avah, there are things I want to sort out, things I am still confused on.

    There are also other apologies I want to make to other people, but they might be too private. As I said, I'm still confused on things, but the most I can do is apologize for my un-Christian behavior, no matter what I believe about this ministry in the end.

    So please accept my apologies.


    PART II - TESTIMONY OF M.L.T

    My name is Derek. For three years, I have been a bitter enemy of Mishpachah Lev-Tsiyon (also known as Messianic Evangelicals). For the longest time, I believed this was right, believing the group was a cult.

    In 2006, shortly after I had my brain surgery for my brain infection, I had a dream. In my dream, I was in the back seat of a car parked next to an empty field. It was pitch black outside, the only source of light being a street light on a nearby telephone pole. I couldn't see into the front of a car, due to the darkness, but I knew someone was in the front seat. I was told by the Spirit to test it, as I knew the source was demonic, but I didn't dare. I didn't want to see who the driver of the vehicle was. But then I "heard" a voice telling me that as a result of my turning away from Yahweh, my life was going to fall apart.

    And it did. For three miserable years, I was back where I started, having no hope nor sense of accomplishment. I did things that I regret, things that I won't mention here as I don't want to give the enemy of our souls further ammunition to use against me. But in my heart, spiritually, at least, I knew I was a murderer. And it was starting to show in my actions and countenance, even if I didn't commit the physical act of murder itself.

    “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire" (Matthew 5:21, English Standard Version).

    After finally hurting someone I darely cared for, I recognized that I had to do something. For a short time, I turned to psychiatry. When that didn't work (it actually made me worse), I decided to swallow my pride and turn back to Yahweh. Within a short amount of time, I noticed years of problems beginning to dissipate. I decided to quit my life of lies and evil and fix the wrongs I have committed.

    Regarding the ministry of Mishpachah Lev-Tsiyon in particular, I decided to try to make up, in the best way possible (and with Yahweh's help), those I have hurt. I don't know if Yahweh has called me to this particular ministry, but in the end that doesn't matter. What matters is faith in Yah'shua the Messiah (Jesus Christ).

    "And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets” (Matthew 5:37-40, ESV).

    I'm learning, the closer I draw to Yahweh, that He alone will heal my relationships with those around me. That the most important relationship I can have is with Him. And it is through Him and the interaction of those He puts in my life that I learn how to love people.

    In regards to Mishpachah Lev-Tsiyon, however, it is not my belief that it is a cult. And even if it was, it still does not excuse how I acted toward them. Admittedly, I was hurt myself, but instead of taking the mature route and trying to work through my problems, I chose to live in my hurt. And "hurt" is never a good motive to take action. Because hurt clouds reason and cloudy reason causes doubt. And where doubt is, Yahweh's voice isn't.

    When I finally did turn from my evil ways, I was surprised by Christopher Warren's response:

    I was warmed by the fact that he said that they weren't going to try to recruit me back to the group, as I felt this wasn't really what I needed to hear right now. For me, at least, that was the evidence I needed that MLT isn't a cult. And Christopher has told me similar several times in the past, when I was involved with the group, that I was free to leave if Yahweh called me elsewhere. So even though I still have unresolved issues, I intend on working them out no matter where Yahweh takes me. It is just my hope that Yahweh can use me to bring people closer to Him.

    The truth is I'm the one who placed Christopher Warren on a pedestal. I'm the one who used him in place of Yahweh. And Yahweh is now showing me that I need to develop my relationship with Him, that I should seek Him for the answers I need. As far as I'm concerned, at the very least, Christopher Warren is the pastor of a church that tries to live according to the truth as they know it.

    Likewise, regarding the cult accusation, it is also my belief that even the biblical church that Yah'shua established in ancient days would be considered cultic. Yah'shua said only He was the way to Heaven (John 14:6), asked His followers to symbolically eat His flesh and drink His blood (John 6:48-71) and said we must love Him more than father and mother, to the point where our love for them seems like hate (Luke 14:26). So we know that, certainly, from the biblical viewpoint, isolation from the world isn't neccessarily "cultic". The issue is whether or not a group abides in the truth. And if MLT isn't of Yahweh, it will crumble when Yah'shua returns (Matthew 15:13). The most important thing any of us can do is to seek the face of Yahweh. And to love our enemies.

    "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil" (Luke 6:35 ESV).

    This truly is my wish, to do good to everyone, no matter what. My desire is to repent. To serve Him and it is only through my faith in Him that He can help me make up for the evils I have done. Please pray for me that He might give me the strength, as I desire to do things right. And if I have hurt you, feel free to contact me at any time through the Ning group and I will see what I can do to reconcile.


    PART III - REPLIES TO RICK ROSS

    The following is a response to an original post made by Derek in the Rick Ross "Institute" which he asked Mr.Ross to delete so that he could move on with his life. Ross refused but Derek was allowed to post the following statement (see ScreenShot here) which has been reproduced from an archived source in case Ross should later decide to delete it:

    I'm the OP (original poster) of this thread and I wanted to clarify a few things. I want to make it clear I'm not a "cult apologist" and while the group definitely has "strange beliefs" when compared to mainstream society, I think its classification as a cult is more a polemical argument from the personal life of NCCG Concern (which I will leave out of this post) and less because it fits any pre-defined criteria. In fact, I believe if we were to place Christianity and Judaism under the same criteria, they would be deemed just as "cultic" as NCCG.

    First of all, I have serious doubts that this group can be defined as a cult. This group (from its own site) has materials where it openly ADMITS its "mistakes" (such as its origin in Mormonism to its eventual evolution to "Messianic Evangelicalism" [embracing some of the core tenets of Messianic Judaism and Evangelical Christianity]). While I personally as a Christian do not agree with all of its doctrinal tenets, I cannot qualify them as a cult on the criteria that they will openly admit when they are wrong.

    Another reason I cannot consider them a cult: they do not care about building membership numbers. After re-contacting the group after 3 three years of campaigning violently against them, when I finally hit a brick wall myself and apologized to them, they readily forgave me and told me I did not have to re-join. This was a breath of fresh air.

    Another observation I made personally from conversations with Christopher Warren is that the group is pushing for a more ecumenical bent (they maintain relationships with Christians of other denominations) without compromising their own theological beliefs. Likewise, since my departure, they are extremely cautious against turning down medical treatment, even once telling me that I should ask my doctor about quitting medical treatment instead of recommending it directly. So this initial criticism I had against them has been addressed.

    Finally, the group does not require you be a member of their group to be "saved". They hold to the Protestant belief that salvation is through faith in Christ, coupled with obedience to the teachings of Christ and the Bible.

    So that it is clear I'm not "crusading" for them, I do have issues with what I view as their over-reliance on Torah, since they still observe and require the ceremonial laws (kosher, Festivals, Sabbath, tzitzit, etc.), where I personally interpret Colossians 2 as stating that those things are not needful for a Christian. But since that is more of a theological disagreement, I do not wish to enter into it here. Instead, I'm using this one post as a place to publicly retract my criticisms. If the moderators could delete this thread (or even my OP), I would be more than happy, but if not, I would prefer that I'm allowed to post this.


    PART IV - DISCUSSION WITH 'NCCG-CONCERN'

    The following dialogue is taken from the so called Rick Ross "Cult Education Forum" (Rick Ross and 'NCCG-Concern' are themselves cultists extraordinaire). Derek resumes a thread which he began when he was originally hostilre to this ministry in order to straighten out the record. The language is secular because of the nature of the group itself in which he is posting. We begin there.


    Derek (zealforyahweh) (18 November 2009) - 3 posts combined

    I'm the OP (original poster) of this thread and I wanted to clarify a few things. I want to make it clear I'm not a "cult apologist" and while the group definitely has "strange beliefs" when compared to mainstream society, I think its classification as a cult is more a polemical argument from the personal life of NCCG Concern (which I will leave out of this post) and less because it fits any pre-defined criteria. In fact, I believe if we were to place Christianity and Judaism under the same criteria, they would be deemed just as "cultic" as NCCG.

    First of all, I have serious doubts that this group can be defined as a cult. This group (from its own site) has materials where it openly ADMITS its "mistakes" (such as its origin in Mormonism to its eventual evolution to "Messianic Evangelicalism" [embracing some of the core tenets of Messianic Judaism and Evangelical Christianity]). While I personally as a Christian do not agree with all of its doctrinal tenets, I cannot qualify them as a cult on the criteria that they will openly admit when they are wrong.

    Another reason I cannot consider them a cult: they do not care about building membership numbers. After re-contacting the group after 3 three years of campaigning violently against them, when I finally hit a brick wall myself and apologized to them, they readily forgave me and told me I did not have to re-join. This was a breath of fresh air.

    Another observation I made personally from conversations with Christopher Warren is that the group is pushing for a more ecumenical bent (they maintain relationships with Christians of other denominations) without compromising their own theological beliefs. Likewise, since my departure, they are extremely cautious against turning down medical treatment, even once telling me that I should ask my doctor about quitting medical treatment instead of recommending it directly. So this initial criticism I had against them has been addressed.

    Finally, the group does not require you be a member of their group to be "saved". They hold to the Protestant belief that salvation is through faith in Christ, coupled with obedience to the teachings of Christ and the Bible.

    So that it is clear I'm not "crusading" for them, I do have issues with what I view as their over-reliance on Torah, since they still observe and require the ceremonial laws (kosher, Festivals, Sabbath, tzitzit, etc.), where I personally interpret Colossians 2 as stating that those things are not needful for a Christian. But since that is more of a theological disagreement, I do not wish to enter into it here. Instead, I'm using this one post as a place to publicly retract my criticisms. If the moderators could delete this thread (or even my OP), I would be more than happy, but if not, I would prefer that I'm allowed to post this.

    I wanted to add (if I may) that the group does maintain a page of the testimonies of former critics here. Three of my testimonies are likewise on that page.

    I think that, like anything, at the end of the day, one must decide for themselves based on the facts. As I said, I'm not a member, but I cannot refer to the group as a cult because to do so would invalidate most of my own and many other belief systems. It is enough for me that they have a view of salvation that is fairly orthodox and are not as "exclusive" as critics such as NCCG Concern portray them to be, despite any mistakes the group has made in the past (which is common to the human condition -- I'm sure at the end of the day, we've made a number of blunders we're all ashamed of).

    This is my last post on this topic. :) I wanted to correct it here just in case someone doesn't know how to do it.

    Although I also wanted to add one more thing: I've been to the "compound" only one time and for a three month period, not "many times", as Concern suggested.


    'NCCG-Concern' (Laura) (22 November 2009)

    The original poster in this thread had left the cult's influence for a period of time, as the original post describes. Later, he became involved again after being re-exposed to the cult's internet forum.


    Derek (zealforyahweh) (22 November 2009)

    I know I said I wasn't going to post here again, but I received an update to this via email. So here goes . . .

    Not true, NCCG Concern, if by "involved" you mean I'm a "member" or a "fringe member". I'm on friendly terms with the group, but, as stated, believe differently than them in vital areas of doctrine and practice.

    I *did*, however, write some materials for this group recanting my original position, which they posted to their page. Since then, though, I have written a number of posts, some of which I have posted directly to their Ning group, on my blog there. Interestingly enough, the group does allow people to post beliefs separate from their own on their private blogs. This post where I entirely recant belief in ceremonial law here is entirely against the position of the MLT ministry, who believe Christians should observe such things such as kosher, Sabbath, etc. I, obviously, do not.

    Its incidents like these that can quickly slide into libel and something I'm trying to repair through posts such as this. I'm not sure if Concern means well in this regard, but Concern is clearly mistaken on this and a number of other vital key facts. I had desired to have this thread deleted entirely, as I'm trying to move on in life and get my life back together, but since I was told in private email that was not allowed by Rick Ross himself, I was granted permission to post a retraction as long as it doesn't go against the rules. I'm doing this to try to restore the reputations and names of many innocent people (some who I can't name here for obvious reasons).


    'NCCG-Concern' (22 November 2009)

    Quote: zealforyahweh if by "involved" you mean I'm a "member" or a "fringe member". I'm on friendly terms with the group .... Since then, though, I have written a number of posts, some of which I have posted directly to their Ning group, on my blog there.

    The pattern of a friendly, internet-based relationship with the cult's leadership, plus participation in the cult's messageboards (the current one being hosted on the "Ning" service as described above), is typically present when someone is in a controlled relationship with NCCG ( [www.nccg.info] ). This has been the case since 2002 or 2003 through today (2009) ( timeline: [www.nccg.info] ).

    The concept of "member" vs "non-member" of NCCG is not meaningful. This goes back to around 2006, from when NCCG leader Christoper Warren re-defined the word "member" based upon what apparently suited the cult's needs at the time*. In an internet-published statement made primarily for the benefit of cult-involved people, excessive, lengthy focus was put upon the concept of "member" vs "non-member". Warren had written this in response to concerns about the cult from outsiders. The result was that the cult-involved people focused upon Warren's word re-definition instead of the concerns.

    Quote: zealforyahweh but, as stated, believe differently than them in vital areas of doctrine and practice.

    The specifics of NCCG's beliefs do not affect the cult's ability to initiate and maintain controlling relationships, or, to damage someone's mental health. Someone presenting themselves as having a more variable set of beliefs has never affected this.

    NCCG's specific beliefs change over time, with the biggest shifts historically happening in response to internal problems ( major examples documented within [www.nccg.info] ). What has remained constant is the undue influence, not the beliefs.

    To be safe from being recruited (or re-recruited), it is necessary to do more than feel that your beliefs are different. There should be no internet contact possible between the cult and the individual ( [www.nccg.info] ). This would be achieved by the person being unknown to them, or the person positively not allowing that contact, or, the cult not having good contact information for the person. In my experience, there's no fine line of safe, internet-based friendliness with NCCG vs. unsafe. It is all potentially unsafe.

    [*NCCG Note: This is a typical example of 'Mister Concern's distortion methods where she deliberately tries to make it look at though our making a clear distinction between baptised church members and members of online discussion groups is somehow a "redefinition" of membership to absolve ourselves of responsibility. There is obviously a difference between someone who is a member of a congregation through commitment and baptism and a member of a public discussion group, a few of whom are interested investigators of the church with the vast majority being people simply curious to know something about the church. This is a perfect illustration of 'NCCG-Concern' trying to demonise the normal]


    Derek (zealforyahweh) (26 November 2009)

    Quote: NCCG Concern The pattern of a friendly, internet-based relationship with the cult's leadership, plus participation in the cult's messageboards (the current one being hosted on the "Ning" service as described above), is typically present when someone is in a controlled relationship with NCCG ( [www.nccg.info] ). This has been the case since 2002 or 2003 through today (2009) ( timeline: [www.nccg.info] ).

    I don't think I have to state how absurd NCCG Concern's definition of a "controlled" relationship is -- essentially, one only need to be participating on their message board and somehow, through some mystic mojo that Christopher Warren is believed to possess, people essentially become "brainwashed".

    I'm not going to state that some people aren't easily influenced (they are), but in this sense, I think some of what NCCG teaches is hard to swallow for the average "joe" (NCCG members/investigators tend to be highly intelligent and/or idealistic -- in fact, I think it can be demonstrated through the individuals of the group alone that while many participate on their boards, the vast majority do not join and yet still remain on friendly terms with them -- after all, the group teaches salvation is only through Christ, not the group). Likewise, on pages such as Fast Facts, NCCG Concern states carte blanche that Christopher Warren uses some sort of "hypnotic writing". Where? Can it be demonstrably proven? Can it be falsified? Or should we take NCCG Concern's word for it when she states that its "just so"?

    Before NCCG Concern can state this, she has to present an example of hypnotic versus non-hypnotic writing. Obviously, I would prefer an expert on this sort of thing and not just her or someone with an agenda -- an unassociated individual who has training in this would be ideal.

    Finally, she has to demonstrate an example of this hypnotic writing in effect: a case study, in particular, as it relates to Christopher Warren, AFTER it happens and using primary documentation.

    As for myself, personally, the crux of her argument seems to imply I'm in a "controlling relationship" because I participate on their boards. I also occasionally post to and belong to a Seventh Day Adventist social network on Ning -- does that mean they, too, are controlling me or that I'm now a Seventh Day Adventist? Do I magically, through osmosis, enter controlling relationships with each individual I talk to and take on their beliefs since I've now "lost" control? This idea of "control via osmosis" is pure rubbish unless, I believe, Concern meets the criteria I have mentioned above. Her policy of "assert first, ask questions later" needs to end. And while I'll admit that, at times, it seems to me this group does the same ("assert first, ask questions later"), I believe objectivity is only possible when people drop all preconceived notions of the other. In short, Concern has to be able to present a scientifically testable theory of many of the things she asserts (hypnotic writing, Warren's so-called "psychopathy", etc.).

    As for her historic time line in her second link in her recent post on this thread, I have never questioned whether or not its true or false, but given her source sample, I believe it is possibly more false than true. A total of 34 different times, Concern cites an unnamed but highly involved individual as a "primary source". This source is highly antagonistic (which obviously colors all objectivity) and while they may or may not be speaking the truth, it is hard to tell unless we can see either primary documentation which backs their claims or more people come out and verify these facts. I do believe this source skirts dangerously close to libel, a sin I once committed, no matter how "well-intentioned" -- courts generally do not smile favorably on this sort of thing and Concern may see her self in more legal water than she can chew if the group decides to prosecute.

    In other words, until she can say, "All the things that source 22 says is true and we know this because of source 23, 24, 25, etc. and this information has been cross-examined and backed by trained professionals", she skirts awfully close to libel. And while I wouldn't necessarily disregard source 22's testimony as a scholar, neither would I interpret the data on source 22's testimony alone, but would seek a plurality of witnesses and primary documentation. Regardless of how you feel about a group, you want your data to correspond with reality in order to be objective.

    In this, though, I am not stating one needs to be dispassionate as a result of the data. I do think, though, one needs to be clear about what they are evangelizing for (and whether or not Concern acknowledges it, she is evangelizing for an ideology -- in this case, one that disagrees with NCCG/MLT). I am a Christian and I have sought to be as clear as possible about what it is I evangelize for: I'm going back to college to study Classical Languages (Greek and Latin) and Philosophy so that I may eventually pursue a Master's and Doctor's in Theology. I personally believe one should be as knowledgeable as possible about the things they believe (even if its atheistic nihilism) if they are going to evangelize for it. And believe it or not, I decided to pursue this route because of doctrinal disagreements I've had in the past with this group and also the Mormons, Messianic Jews, etc.

    It should be noted that not once in this post am I either affirming or denying NCCG/MLT may or may not be a cult. I, personally, do not see it. I have stated my reasons why I do not see it. I also think that some of Concern's conclusions, taken to their logical conclusion, are just as downright absurd. The truth is, based on this post and others, she seems to believe that people have the ability to take your rights through some form of psychological "dark magick" (i.e. hypnotic writing) that she has not demonstrated yet (I think she told me in a phone conversation she heard this was possible from a cult deprogrammer -- I do not know if its true or not, I am just saying nothing more than it needs to be demonstrated). She likewise seems to think that just because they possess this ability, all are "influenced" in the same degree. I can state categorically that I am not in any way, shape or form controlled by this group -- these are my thoughts and they're not being fact-checked by Chris Warren. If he were to tell me I needed to present my own thoughts in any other way than that which my conscience and the Bible allows me, I would tell him I'm a slave only to my God and my own conscience.

    Neither am I denying dangerous religious groups or ideologies may or may not exist. As a Christian, I would be absurd to make that judgment, since I believe anything in opposition to the gospel is potentially dangerous. People are free in this world to agree or disagree with my assessment. But, irony of all ironies, since I myself am highly logical, I demand proof of Concern's assertions before I swallow it. I have outlined areas where I think proof is lacking.

    If these things can be factually proven, it is then I am more likely to make a judgment about whether or not NCCG is a cult. As far as I'm concerned, based on my current assessment, it is a group with a history of mistakes of which they have readily admitted and repented for (whereas I think a "cult" would want to gloss over those aspects). Everything that pertains to me has been resolved, to my satisfaction, privately through conversations with this group. And while I still have questions, neither will I hate ANYONE with whom I happen to disagree with, regardless of the harm they may have caused me. Nor do I hate Concern.

    But I do take issue with her "belief", colored by her worldview, I believe, that I'm some incompetent "mind controlled" victim under undue influence. I believe I have already demonstrated that I have my own agenda and that is repairing reputations that I, through libel, have destroyed. This is my Christian duty to any group I disagree with, whether they are Christians or whether they offer virgins on the altar to Satan. A Christian is supposed to be honest, regardless. Neither do I have any obligations to Christopher Warren -- I think my stated disagreements here are evidence of that.

    And its because of this assertion that I'm "involved" because of, in her words, a "pattern of a friendly, internet-based relationship with the cult's leadership, plus participation in the cult's messageboards [sic] . . . [which] is typically present when someone is in a controlled relationship with NCCG", that I have written this post. I think its absurd in the umpteenth degree to suggest that because I may or may not have been influenced in the past means I am or am not influenced now (and it likewise ignores a number of psychological factors I underwent at the time and whether or not the group truly "exploited" those or if it was my own fault for viewing Warren the same way Mormons view their own prophet -- a belief system I came out of shortly before involving myself with NCCG back in 2004). I take issue with this because if her beliefs regarding this are taken to their logical conclusions, one would be unable to form relationships of any sort with anyone out of fear of undue influence.

    This has been a bit long, but I do believe Concern has to satisfy the above criteria before I take her seriously as an investigator. I believe any scientific, rational-minded person (Christian, atheist, Buddhist, etc.) would argue that the things I suggest above are not only logically sound, but imperative if she wishes to make the assertions that she does make.


    Rick Ross (rrmoderator) (23 November 2009)

    The research material is publicly available through the archives within this Web site.

    See [www.rickross.com]

    This research outlines the basics of social influence.

    See [www.rickross.com]

    Emotional Manipulation

    According to Cialdini, the majority of the thousands of different tactics that compliance professionals use fall into six categories, and each category is based on a psychological principle that directs human behavior. These six principles are:

    1. Consistency. We try to justify our earlier behavior.
    2. Reciprocity. If somebody gives us something, we try to repay in kind.
    3. Social Proof. We try to find out what other people think is correct.
    4. Authority. We have a deep-seated sense of duty to authority figures.
    5. Liking. We obey people we like.
    6. Scarcity. If we come to want something, we can be made to fear that if we wait it will be gone. The opportunity to get it may pass. We want to take it now - whatever is being offered, from an object to cosmic consciousness.

    We can see how transformations occur when the six principles are skillfully put into play by cult leaders and cultic groups. For example:

    1. Consistency. If you have made a commitment to the group and then break it, you can be made to feel guilty.
    2. Reciprocity. If you accept the group's food and attention, you feel you should repay them.
    3. Social proof. If you look around in the group, you will see people behaving in particular ways. You imitate what you see and assume that such behavior is proper, good, and expected.
    4. Authority. If you tend to respect authority, and your cult leader claims superior knowledge, power, and special missions in life, you accept him as an authority.
    5. Liking. If you are the object of love bombing and other tactics that surround you, make you feel wanted and loved, and make you like the people in the group, you feel you ought to obey these people.
    6. Scarcity. If you are told that without the group you will miss out on living a life without stress; miss out on attaining cosmic awareness and bliss; miss out on changing the world instantly or gaining the ability to travel back in time; or miss out on whatever the group offers that is tailored to seem essential to you, you will feel you must buy in now.

    Coercive persuasion is described in research within the following paper.

    [www.rickross.com]

    The key factors that distinguish coercive persuasion from other training and socialization schemes are:

    1. The reliance on intense interpersonal and psychological attack to destabilize an individual's sense of self to promote compliance

    2. The use of an organized peer group

    3. Applying interpersonal pressure to promote conformity

    4. The manipulation of the totality of the person's social environment to stabilize behavior once modified

    See [www.rickross.com]

    Note the distinctions between education, advertising, propaganda, indoctrination and thought reform, often called "brainwashing" or coercive persuasion.

    Torture in not necessary in brainwashing.


    Derek (zealforyahweh) (26 November 2009)

    Thanks Mr. Ross for your response. However, while I do have some questions about what you have stated, I'll forgo those until I have read more about it (I intend on getting or borrowing the book the material is referenced in). However, I do not think we're speaking of the same thing.

    On the NCCG.INFO website, Concern says the following:

    Quote: NCCG Concern
    READING MATERIAL WITH HYPNOTIC EFFECTS "Christopher C. Warren has written a large amount of material related to his cult since its inception, and continues to do so. A portion of these writings was reviewed by a cult expert who advised me that that it is capable of inducing a hypnotic, suggestible state in the reader. The cult expert explained that it's not uncommon for cult leaders to write material that affects people this way.

    "In past years, this writing used to be self-published in pamphlet form, but today it is generally put on the internet, mostly on the cult's main web site (www.nccg.org)" (Source: [nccg.info]).

    And:

    Quote: NCCG Concern "1) HYPNOTIC WRITING: The writing by Christopher C. Warren on the NCCG website and in pamphlets is 'hypnotic writing,' according to Mary Alice Crapo, a professional exit counselor with 20+ years experience in cult exit counseling. She indicated that if someone persists in reading it, they will eventually feel inclined to believe the material, even if they did not decide to believe it based upon its merits" (Source: [nccg.info]).

    A large part of this is the "mystic mumbo jumbo" I was referring to in my post above and the thing I want proven. Is there documented evidence that reading certain materials could cause one to "feel inclined to believe the material, even if they did not decide to believe it based upon its merits"? Or could it simply be that people are persuaded to believe similarly? Would reading religious materials and believing them be considered undue influence? And in what manner did Crapo come to that conclusion: has she (or preferably, a scientist) tested it in a controlled setting and can it be repeated or falsified?

    I did want to fix two factual errors, but I wrote them because I was angry and wasn't thinking clearly. While it is true that Bud Rice did enter "my" house without "my" permission, this is because he was my landlord and Christopher Warren asked him to recover pamphlets that belonged to the group (not me) because I was incapacitated and in the hospital. I said he "robbed the place" simply because I was peeved he went in without asking me. He did take some knives, but he did so because he had loaned them to me and my stuff simply got mixed in with his own. So in this way, I do not blame him, even if I was upset at the time.

    On another note, neither did Christopher Warren and his family rob the home. Gunnar Mjølsvik had apparently left some of his property with the cooperative and there were many things the group did leave behind for his own family (such as keepsakes, etc.). I imagine that the reason post cards and things of that nature were ripped up because they contained sensitive, private information that was no one's business aside from those involved. Now that I'm no longer angry with the group and can think with a clearer head, it doesn't bother me as much and I can see people's intentions much better (it is easy to judge people when your views are colored by emotions).

    I hope this clears up a few things and I hope to get more answers to my question. :)


    To date he has received no answers

    Source: Rick Ross: 'Cult Education Forum'

    UPDATE

    In the normal course of events, the material on Derek on this Critics page would have been taken down as the proper and honourable response to a cessation of hostilities between the parties concerned (just as all the previous materials were) as well as to enable the parties concerned to get on with their lives and move on.

    The principle reason these articles remain is because Derek's earlier writings, or synopses thereof, on various critics' websites continue to be published in spite of his originally asking for them to be removed, and for the benefit of those who may encounter them. They were originally reproduced with his permission.

    Additionally, I have to report that Derek now claims to be an agnostic and therefore, understandably, does not want to be represented as the believer he briefly became at the time of reconcilliation. He is therefore no longer associated with, or supportative of, this ministry.

    This addendum therefore serves as a corrective to any impression otherwise given in this article that he is still a Christian, as well as being an apology for not having made this correction earlier, the delay being solely occasioned by the forgetfulness that results from a combination of advancing years and a very busy schedule.

    Finally, I have combined the four former articles into one as well as putting them into a new category of 'Ex-Former Critics'

    16 December 2011

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