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The 12 Books of Abraham

    Email Discussions 4

    Conversations with
    Rachel Lausitz

    The following is en email correspondence between Stanisław and a divorcee from California. The text is indented to show who is responding to which part of the conversation.

    Dear Stanisław,

    I will save this e-mail and respond to and question other issues later but for now I would like to address the question of equal love and will address those parts of our communication. You have been wonderful in being so thorough in answering me but I can't expect you to read my mind and the questions that dwell in my soul.

    I have been enjoying your website. Do you plan on putting up more interviews?

      Haven't been well enough to do much more - just keeping up with emails is pretty full-time work! I'm getting more and more people stuck in the occult who need help and that's a big investment of time. But I would like to - just hasn't been anyone else to interview! Why don't you interview me? Send a list of questions and I'll do my best. Or write an email to one or both of my wives. They would be happy to answer you.

        I will plan on doing that. In fact, I would enjoy that very much. Would I have journalistic freedom?

          We can discuss that. What I'd like to do, if you're agreed, is to put the our discussions on our homepage....

            I think if our correspondence continues I will feel more free in asking you questions on the nature of patriarchal marriages and the practical aspects of sharing your life with a husband and other wives.

              Feel free.

        I have many questions but I worry about being too personal. My questions, as a woman, are very specific. However, I don't know how to learn without asking.

          Please feel free to be as specific as you wish. You might say that I've 'seen it all' when it comes to human nature so I won't be upset or purturbed by anything.

    If it's not too personal, did the woman who interviewed you join your family?

    We have not grown beyond us three! We're rather 'picky', as you can imagine.... Some ladies just aren't cut out for polygyny and some polygynous families just aren't strong enough to shoulder the burdens of those with particularly big problems. In the end it boils down to revelation - we must know what Yahweh wants, as must any potential wives. With my present two we just 'knew'.

    The young woman interviewing you seemed very serious and in touch with all that a marriage with you would entail. What went wrong? How did you know that this woman joining you would not be what was best? Was the decision mutual?

      Nothing has finally been decided yet. She is still exploring. People ask questions as you do, get interested, disappear for a while, and then come back again. We've been in contact with one lady on and off for 2-3 years now. She has complications with child custody and other problems like that - would need her husband's consent to take her out of the country (she's from eastern Europe). And there are other practical problems like residence permits, and the like. It's simpler in the European Union but outside it it's very hard to get people to come and live with you.

    I do have a question if you wouldn't mind answering. How does a man love his wives equally? Wouldn't there be preference in some way for one? A more shared sense of humor, similar natures, etc. It is something that worries me about a polygamous marriage.

      Yes, it's a legitimate concern but I think you're asking the question in the wrong way. Yours is a common question which I think I answered recently.

      To begin with, no two friendships are alike because no two personalities are alike. The 1:1 relationship I have with each of my wives is different because they have different personalities. They each also bring out different qualities in me (positive and negative!). One is far more intellectual than the other - I am quite an intellectual type. The other is much more domestic - I am also a domestic type. But the wonder is in the fourth 'element', and that's Christ, because our marriage is more than two women bonding with me individually - we have alsobonded with each other.

        I understand what you are saying about Christ being the fourth element - however - I still feel that might be a preference for one over the other. Or one over the others. What makes us love someone in the first place. What if I met you and felt an overwhelming frission - that undeniable something that makes us fall in love with another person. The rapport that makes spending time together so enjoyable and discussing/debating anything so much fun. And there we are - not just 2 but 3 or 4. And how can you be impartial to whom you would prefer sleeping with on any particular night when there is all the interactions that lead up to wanting to share that most intimate of expressions of love? Or what if one woman feels overwhelming love and desire for you and yet has to watch you depart with another?

          These are spirit vs. flesh issues. However, with a new wife, the 'old' wives expect me to spend longer with the new one initially.

            Why is this? Exactly what do you mean by longer?

              The reason our marriage is now so stable is that we've been around each other so long and know each other so well. Every new wife is uncertain and has exactly the same sort of fears you are expressing. She needs the extra time for reassurance and to know that she is truly cherished by her husband. And I need to know her too. Every new marriage has a 'honeymoon' while the new couple exult in one another - in the freshness of their union, in the thrill of exploring their personalities, in bonding. This initial foundation is needed to allow the couple to be strong enough to face the 'warts' which become more visible after the honeymoon. So, they expect me to spent more time with a new wife at first. Usually the new wife will be the last to object, of course, but as she grows in love and trust (not just of me but the others too) so she learns to be more giving to the others. You must be able to possess before you can share. So she learns first to possess and then, by gradual increments (depending on her spirituality) to share. Of course, she does not have me exclusively in the beginning any more than later, but she is certainly being 'treated'. It's all a part of Christ-like sacrifice. Instruction takes place in the process and there is much sharing of all together too. We don't allow the spirit of multiple-monogamy to creep in to the relationship.

                What a good phrase to explain what you're describing - multiple monogamy. I understand exactly what you mean and can see where that could be soul destroying to a polygamous relationship. I agree that a new wife coming into an established marriage would need the extra time, a "honeymoon", at the beginning. It would be daunting to enter into the lives of people who have deep knowledge and understanding of one another. While your wives might expect you to spend more time with a new wife - isn't that still a little difficult. Understanding intellectually is something I achieve more often than truly embracing with my heart.

          But you are asking me to divulge a mystery of polygynous unity which is very hard to describe unless you have been through it. It is very much a faith/trust issue. But if you would like to have a vision of what it is like with US then I invite you to read our Third Book of Abraham which very much captures the spirit of who we (at least) are (remembering that there is much difference between polygamous families) and what we aim for.

            Very interesting reading. So much to learn.

              It's the spirit of this book which bonds us so uniquely, I feel.

        Patriarchy is pulling at my heart. And with that comes polygamy. I cannot deny the biblical truth of this nor can I deny the fact that I am being called to seek a strong patriarchal relationship and that this will most likely entail polygamy.

          Do you know anyone who is actually living this principle? Are there any in your fellowship? For the best way to learn is by seeing it in action. You are most welcome to visit us though it would be a long journey...

            I worship with a small group in the home of our Elder - or as he says - the Patriarch to the patriarchs. We have recently had the addition of 2 polygamous families and it's causing quite the stir. We are a body committed to patriarchal Chritianity and polygamy is considered biblical. However, there was no one in our group actually practicing the principle so it's been disconcerting. Both families are very different in the way their marriages are set up, and both families seem very blessed and spirit led in their committment. I have become somewhat friendly with one of the wives but I find her husband intimidating and the control he exerts disturbing. It's happily accepted by both of his wives so I try not to judge nor to have predetermined reactions to some of the things I have witnessed or been told about.

              It's a difficult question when polygamous family exist 'independently', as it were, without the benefit of a church (assembly), its discipline, compassion and experience. This is a new experience for the evangelical Christian movement. It is very important, I feel, that patriarchs are accountable to someone in the way they conduct their marriages. But these two families are doubtless learning as they go along, as we did. Refinement takes time especially if you are starting out alone without a great corpus of experience in maturer elders to back you up and to whom you can turn, to be praised, and corrected (when necessary!).

          The heart-pull is caused by fear of the unknown, and nothing more. As one who has suffered the breakup of a marriage you are naturally vulnerable.

            Yes, I know that I am vulnerable and not particularly trusting of men. When you have been married to a man that eventually chooses to be with other men - your self-esteem is serverely impacted.

              I can truly understand (see below).

        Were I to make a dissection (which I don't do) then, yes, I would say that each wife has qualities and virtues that attract me in different ways. However, you can't make a list, ascribe grades, and then add them up, and so love them on the basis of those grades. You could TRY but it would me meaningless and pointless.

          Preference isn't always based upon qualities or virtues. We can't always say why our hearts respond to another - yearn for another - want to share the most intimate of physical expressions with another.

            No, that is true. However, the differences created by the flesh do dissolve in Christ, and that is the central revelation of patriarchal polygyny, at least in our experience. The 'chemistry' we feel for others is a strange thing indeed and may well have something to do with whether or not we are 'soul mates'. There are many mysteries inherent in this doctrine (if you believe it as we do). My youngest wife and I keep on experiencing the same thoughts as though we could read each other's mind like an open book. It's uncanny and sometimes we speak the words simultaneously as though we were reading from a script! There is a rather special communion which neither of us can explain.

              This sounds very special and wonderful. I cannot imagine having that type of closeness with another human being.

                Oh, there are many other wonderful things too. But don't think it's all a bed of roses. My youngest wife and I have this close raport but we also disagree the most! Hard to believe, perhaps, but that's the way it is. Whereas with my oldest one we rarely have disagreements. But that may be a question of an age gap.

            I don't have this with my older wife but this has never been a problem because we interface in other ways.

              And how might that be? She never resents the connection you share with your other wife?

                Not at all. To be sure there were struggles in the beginning with such thoughts as 'oh, she's younger, prettier, slimmer, etc.' but they pass. But she knows I love both equally and so there is rarely ever a negative thought or feeling. We are able to cuddle and kiss in one another's company and enjoy it all together. Once you realise the other isn't getting something you don't already have, you quit worrying and settle down. So long as everyone gives with their whole mind, heart and strength, the silly fears we have dissolve.

            As for 'yearning', I yearn for both of them no matter what. My youngest has just left for Kraków and I feel a great emptiness. It's exactly the same when my older wife goes away. Maybe 3 Abraham will give you a clue as to what we experience. It's a special blessing that Yahweh has given us and it's not based on 'chemistries' as the world calls them.

              You do seem very blessed.

                I agree

              This is an alien concept to me but as you might be able to imagine - I didn't have any true intimacy in my monogamous relationship.

                Rachel, neither did I in my first marriage. My wife was in love with someone else and secretly hoped her 'prince charming' would come and get her. He never did and instead she fell for another - and that fell apart too. So I think you can understand me when I say there was no physical relationship except for procreation purposes. And that's a kind of hell. So I DO understand.

              The relationship we did have was based on lies and evasions, I thought the reason that my husband did not seek me out sexually was a failing in me, my intrinsic unworthiness, etc., etc.

                I'm sorry, I really am. It must have created all sorts of complexes in you. But don't worry, Rachel, all that's going to come to an end and it will seem as though the past was a night dream. I know - I've experienced it (though I had to go through a second marriage struggle - I pray you do not).

              I feel convicted that God will provide me with a spiritual and physical relationship that will surpass anything I have ever dreamed of. I look forward to this with eager anticipation and an open heart.

                I believe your dream will come true

            As for intimate physical expression, this has never been a problem in my family. Sexual matters tend to be touchy because of the world's expectations. We have been brainwashed by the media to some extent in terms of our expectations, but in Yahweh there are other dimensions of intimacy that the world cannot comprehend. What I am trying to say is that for us at any rate there is no mystery attached to physical intimacy because we know each other so well. There are no unknowns. (I hope you will not read this wrongly - I am trying to be as open as prudence dictates). But maybe you can ask more specific questions.

        Similarly, each wife sees different strengths and weaknesses in me too. That which equalises us is

        (a) We realise we are all sinners before Yahweh;
        b) We must be humble and repent, and it is there we meet each other on completely equal terms;
        (c) We love not on the basis of who were are but on the basis that Christ loved us first.

        It's really a straight forward choice - to love and accept as Christ loves and accepts, or to love and accept as the carnal nature does.

          Yes, Christ must be the focal point of all love.

        And this is the key to everything. He's not just an appendage to tbe marriage - He IS the marriage.

          Intellectually I can accept this but I'm not sure how it works in action. How one submits and surrenders.

            One thing that worries me about many of the theologies of some of the emerging patriarchal marriages is that there is such emphasis on submission that love can so easily get shoved aside. Men have a tendency to dominate if they aren't checked (though the fault lies in both sexes, I hasten to add). Yes, most of this will be intellectual for now - inevitably. But don't worry, you'll get opportunity to see things deeply and begin to feel as the poet does. And the pudding is always best when eaten!

          Can you explain this further. Is the husband excited by the 'newness' of the new wife? Is the excitement you mention sexual? How does everything change and I'm unclear what you mean by not one-sided.

            To begin with, as a patriarch I believe having lived and shared my life with four women that there aren't many 'novelties' to be discovered. We are often excited by the novelty of things. That's fine, for it is as it should be. Once you have 'tasted' what there is to be tasted, you start yearning for things spiritual more than you do of the flesh. That does not mean that you cease liking the physical side of marriage (not at all) but your whole centre becomes understanding the wider dimension of how Christ loves the Church (Messianic Community). While marriage for an experienced patriarch is still thrilling he has as his greatest 'thrill' the revelation that Christ is in the marriage and is PLEASED. I have learned SO MUCH about the Lord Yah'shua (Jesus) in polygamy that for me this is now the greatest satisfaction for I can begin to appreciate how He loves His bride. Polygamy has given me a dimension to my wider ministry that I could never have had in any other way.

            A person who has been starving not unnaturally tends to be a bit of a glut when food is placed before him. New marriages tend to be 'spiritually gluttenous' because it's all so new and fun. That's fine. But once the food is regular you start refining your appetite and appreciate the finer melodies of relationship. I expect a new wife to 'have her fill' (don't think I'm being coarse, I'm not, just realistic) and I do enjoy her pleasure. I know she will change as she settles down in her marriage. Marriage is in any case about constant change. You can't be static in a patriarchal marriage. A new wife is actually a good thing because it gets us out of unconscious ruts. We are all exploring again and seeing each other in a new light.

            We all live in one house. I wouldn't have it any other way for I want my marriage to be in the same image as a loving church (assembly) fellowship labouring together for Yahweh. It's very dynamic. Many domestic duties are shared and a new wife always brings a lot of new and challenging ideas. Yes, even her sexual needs are different and so for myself there is also adjustment. Patriarchal marriage is poetry in motion. When differences crop up - which they always do when a new one comes in the family - we deal with them immediately and in depth. As the head I set the stadards after consultation. Then an adjustment period is needed.

            Since everyone adjusts to everyone else it's not 'one sided'.

            We have seen this principle in action so often. Martha's tend to stand in awe of Mary's and wrongly so, for you will remember that the rôles actually reversed later on. Mary was the whining one and Martha was solid. Both need each other. And I need both for the Church (Messianic Community) needs both too.

        My wives are completely different from one another and I am attracted by different things in them, but I love them the same, because the love that I choose is that love from He who first loved me, from whence I obtain this love.

          With this equal love, on any given day, can you deny a preference?

            I do not live my spiritual-emotional-physical life in a linear fashion but in a three dimensional one. The oneness I enjoy with my wives does not leave me burning to be with one more than the other. That's not the basis of our way. And it's not forced or unnatural. I suppose this state of being has come with maturity of age to some extent. Of course, when you get a new wife it is very exciting and everything changes in the household. But it's not one-sided.

            It is hard to explain this 'oneness experience'. Read 3 Abraham and maybe you'll better understand where I'm coming from!

              Can you have a more intellectual love and not prefer being intimate with your intellectual companion?

                Yes. Because my PERSONAL wholeness is not based on one but all my wives. I am a compound of all of them. Of course I enjoy having intellectual discussions with a Mary-type but that isn't to denigrate a Martha-type. See the revelation our Order got on this.

              Can the evening be domestic without you prefering the relationship that encompasses that? And what of the wives? Can an intellectual woman spend an evening having a lively discussion with you, feeling close and perhaps stimulated, and then watch you retire with another?

                Yes. Because the centre and height of true marriage in Christ is spiritual. The glory of the Church (Messianic Community) is in the oneness of its members, not in the glorification of an arm or a leg. You see, polygamy isn't like momogamy at all. It possesses a dimension that doesn't exist in monogamy - that 'oneness of many' principle. It is a 'mini-church fellowship' in more ways than one.

                Our society is too bed-centred. It looks at the bedroom as the height of the marriage experience. Though it's a vitally important part of it, it's not the marriage itself. The flesh fades but the spirit remains.

                  Yes, we are a sex obsessed culture, but as you say - the marriage bed is very important in a marriage. I know how shattering the lack of a sexual relationship can be to a marriage.

                    Yes, and you are understandbly hungry to experience this God-given side of yourself. I had the same hunger and Yahweh gave me my fill. Now I am a whole person. And I believe you will be too.

                  These are the things that are worrying me.

                    I understand.

              Is trying to achieve a completely patriarchal relationship too idealistic for this day and age?

                Not if you're willing to give your whole soul to Christ. But there IS a lot of mental and emotional reprogramming to be done. I've noticed the differences that exist in cultures too - your American one is very different from our European one, for example.

                  Can you please give some examples of mental and emotional reprogramming that I might attempt now? I'm aware the I slip into old thinking habits that are not conducive to my walk in patriarchal Christianity. For example, my judging of the polygamous family.

                    I don't think I can realistically do this without knowing you for who you are. Part of our problem lies in the concept of what it is to 'possess' another. We have a tendency to exclusive ownership - of ourselves and of our spouses. Polygamy disables that from the start and teaches you how to submit to Christ. We are also programmed cuturally and part of our work is moving people towards the Zionic culture that is to come. Our musical tastes are all twisted, society demands speed and 'instant' solutions. Yahweh wants spiritual music in our lives, softening and sweetening us so that our feelings are luscious as a scented garden. Relationships need time to build - there are no MacDonalds solutions. Patience is a supreme quality to be learned that the world does not cultivate. We have to (as I have mentioned earlier) temper our feelings so that they do not run amok, and learn to understand WHY we are the way we are. There are so many inner knots to untie. You learn to expect less and give more until you stop expecting and are completely giving. No expectation can be met because it has a huge illusiory component. So we just love for love's sake. There are times when I put a stop to words and we just sit and cuddle; other times, I insist that things are talked through. I am severe when it comes to human nature but try to be liberal in everything else.

                    We do of course bring many judgments with us into a plural family. My job is to listen and to instruct. A new wife does have a lot of yielding to do, it is true, but we make it a principle to yield where she comes with a principle or a practice where there is greater light than we already have. At the same time it may take time to ease into new ways. It can be harder for older wives coming in because they have decades of habits deeply engrained. It is, as I said, a dynamic exchange.

            I hope not but I don't know. It's not something I have ever attempted. I feel very inadequate.

              Well, that's the best place to start - inadequacy. It's those who feel sufficient who fall flat on their faces in patriarchal marriage!

          We all have an unfortunate carnal tendency to weigh and measure others and that does happen in the beginning of a polygynous marriage because of only one thing: the unknown. It's only as you get to know someone well that the doubts and concerns vanish.

            Something I need to give more thought and then I would like to comment.

          Christ is the beginning and ending for us. We are 100% committed to Him. Were we not there would likely be problems. My second wife was not 100% committed and that created big problems. That's why I said we are 'picky' for we only want those who love Yahweh with all their mind, might and strength.

          I am a human being, of course, and my impartiality is directly proportional to the degree of committment I have to Christ. When His Spirit goes away - as it does from time to time when we become self-centred - the naked ugliness of human nature is apparent for all to see. And we all see it, in ourselves and in each other.

            This sounds so challenging and wonderful at the same time.

          Plural marriage is a giant mirror. It's horrid at first but after the spiritual bath you don't see yourself in the mirror any more - only your loves.

            I would love to experience this love.

              You won't like it at first but it'll grow on you as you start shedding old skins used to defend against a hostile environment and feel free to express yourself in front of a husband and dear sister-wives.

      How does a man love his wives equally? Quite simply by realising who he is before Almighty Elohim (God) by accepting them as they are - imperfect, as he is. We work on the basis that we are all defective and that the only way we can be totally and equally loving is by allowing Christ to do the loving through us. Plural marriage really puts your Christian faith to the test because there's no way you can cover up or pretend! We're a hall of mirrors!

        I love what you're saying here and it reflects what I will strive for. I feel convicted that by submitting to a patriarchal relationship I will become closer to understanding how to submit to God. This is what I want but don't know if I can ever achieve. The reality of this seems so difficult.

          Thank goodness the Gospel isn't about 'achieving'! It's a Gospel of grace. Once your 'in' the true spirit of patriarchal marriage it flows of its own accord.

      I love my wives equally quantitatively but differently qualitatively. In some areas we're remarkably one but in others we are very different. That's part of the fun of it because we are constantly leavening one another.

        You seem like an exceptional man. Has it been your experience that most men in polygamous relationships are able to achieve this?

          That's hard to say. Evangelical/Messianic Christian polygyny is very new - it's less than a decade older and from all the contact I've had we're the oldest family living this principle. I do know Mormon polygamous families but they live their lifestyle on the basis of an entirely different spiritual paradigm.

          I've know many polygamous marriages fall flat on their faces and the reasons have usually been because they were not built upon the right spiritual foundation. Some were too liberal (no corrective processes were in place, i.e. a weak patriarch and feministic wives) or too autocratic (tyrannical patriarchs who thought of themselves as kings and their wives as mere concubines). Each patriarchal marriage is as different as the people in them. However, I have observed that there are certain important spiritual ingredients that make a polygamous marriage thrive. We're a little different from other polygynous marriages in this respect because our beliefs are a tiny bit different. We believe, for example, in soul-mates (as I have desribed), in a spiritual pre-existence (not multiple lives or reincarnation), and in eternal marriage (but not the Mormon variety!). Having an eternal perspective very much shapes your thinking while you're down here! A vision of soul-mates and pre-existence gives you a strong motivating power - you know your marriages aren't accidental but providential, and that our getting married here is merely a reunion on the physical plane. You're also motivated by the fact that you know you're investing for eternity - you can't reason, 'oh well, it's only until death us to part' but for ever. The continuity of marriage juxtaposed in this short life makes it all the deeper. But these are views not shared by all patriarchal Christians and they will vary depending on ones denominational background. Most view the principle as a life-only one. Here we are a little exceptional. And this may, perhaps, be the secret of our success. Who knows!

            Your beliefs sound very uplifting. From what I have seen and the small amount of information that I have - this is not the typical belief.

              No. There are one or two like us but we are somewhat alone in this. I believe the younger patriarchal Christians will inevitably 'drift' into this in the end but I wouldn't like to fall into all the holes I know they're going to end up in on the journey. It's the suffering in the relationships that occurs because of immaturity. The Body needs wise, experienced patriarchs. That'll come but it needs time.

            I do think the two patriarchal men I have actually met do feel they were called by God into this relationship but I don't think their view is so large. I have noticed that both have their autocratic tendencies with their wives although one takes it to an extreme. Our Elder, who I have spent time talking with about the relationship between men and women, says that only through submission can a woman find her true walk with God and be happy.

              I half agree. Sumbission, though, goes both ways. If the man isn't submitted to Christ then he'll be seen as a tyrant. But he has to be a fountain of love that must never end. He must have discovered that well that Yah'shua (Jesus) talks about which comes out of the belly. Submission brings only spiritual death if there's not a reservoir of sacrificial love feeding it. Submission and love are twins, the two sides of the marriage coin. A woman wants to be loved above ALL else and when she feels this all-emcompassing love she'll willingly submit. But she'll never experience it if she comes from a position of expectation and demand.

            He has pointed out to me that I was most unhappy when I did have a relationship with a weak man and was calling a lot of the shots on day to day decisions. He says this is not biblical and that women must learn to exalt in the surrender to their husbands and their expectations and demands.

              I'd agree.

        A sense of humour is particularly important. We are all very similar in that respect so a day doesn't pass when we're not having a good laugh. My second wife (who left) was a very serious type so we found ourselves 'tip-toeing' around her.

          That seems like that would make day to day living so difficult. How did you manage it?

            It was hell and very, very stressing for me and my other two wives. The relationship had a wall in it - we on one side and she on the other. Her demanding nature also caused difficulties in my ministry because she wanted to separate marriage from the Church (Messianic Community). She did not understand that they were one and the same but on different levels. In our family the Gospel so thoroughly permeates everything that we could not separate them even if we wanted to. Our only terror is what would happen if we ever abandoned Christ. We try not to speculate on that too often :-)

        She had many personal problems caused by a broken home, though. One's background is important in considering where one best fits in. And I suppose culture is too.

    Rachel, it's not simple because people are so complex. Were Christ not the central part of the equation I can see how polygyny could be very, very complicated. All I know is that when Yahweh is King of your hearts polygamy works just fine. It's not without it's initial struggles. I also think it depends on how young or old you are. Obviously we have a lot of experience behind us now. There are plusses and minuses in youth and age too.

    All I know is that Christ has enabled me to adore both of my wives equally. Were it a flesh-based marriage I suppose I would go in cycles of partiality. Every human being is irritated by something in someone at one time, so you learn to give and take.

      I hope I don't shock you, but I think the flesh-based is very important. How else do we achieve the closeness that God ordained? Perhaps I'm speaking as an immature Christian but this is something I hope to share with the man that God leads me to submit to. Spiritual - yes - but carnal as well with all that that implies. Is this wrong?

        No, intimate physical union is important but not essential. As I said, with age the impulse for sexual union diminishes as a rule, though in my opinion if a patriarch is not virile he has no business being one. However, sex, important a component though it is, lies in fourth place in our hierarchy of values: spirit-mind-heart-flesh (SMHF). When you first come to patriarchal marriage you will find a contest in progress to discover which is in the ascendency. Most people have these out of order to some extent, and when this obtains, there are struggles. Women tend to be more heart- and touch-centred whereas men are more mind and visual-centred. Both have to learn to submit to Christ's value system. The battle is to keep the spirit at the top for both sexes. For the woman, she must not let her heart rule her head, for she tends to be somewhat emotion-based and this can lead to all kinds of unwise and humiliating circumstances. For the man, he must allow his heart freer reign, for in his position as functional head, he must sometimes be steered by pure will. Emotional men can have problems (I was like that once but Yah'shua (Jesus) reversed my tendencies through much disciplining and correction). Being that we are such sensitive mechanisms, we tend to easily get damaged, and all come into patriarchal marriage damaged to some extent. My older wife was very damaged in an earlier relationship but through Christ in patriarchal marriage literally became a 'virgin' again. But she would have to explain that to you herself. My second came as a pure young virgin so did not have these struggles (but all struggle with basic human nature anyway).

          This makes sense. I know that I carry a lot of emotional baggage that God is trying to help me unload. I look forward to having a loving and strong husband help me with this also.

        One of the big illusions our sensual society has taught is that sexual fulfilment lies at the pinnacle of human need. Actually, the highest experience of love comes only through sacrifice. Those who are centred on sex in any way will come to a dead end for they will always be looking for the perfect 'high' and never finding it.

          I don't think it is the pinnacle but I do want it to be an important part of my life that brings me to closer to my husband.

        How can I best describe our experience? Maybe you'd like to read this article on our firstborn colony in Scandinavia.

          I read this and I'm amazed. I didn't know anything like this existed. It's lovely. How big is this community? I would love to learn more.

            It is very small at the moment. It was once larger but ... well, you know the toll that selifishnesn takes. And they wouldn't stick to the Bible.

        In our community we are celibate one to two weeks out of every four in accordance with Yahweh's commandments in Scripture. But we enjoy a good sex life outside of this time.

          Here's a sensitive question: Does this mean sex of any kind or just intercourse? When remaining celibate do you refrain from sleeping together, touching, kissing, etc.? Forgive me if this is too personal.

            No problem. That will depend. I do not actually sleep with them when they are menstruating. I sleep alone (when several women are in a single household, they tend to manstruate at the same time, though not always) at this time, unless they are very unhappy and need closeness. But there hasn't been a need for this for many, many years. We tend to solve problems before we sleep. But we still have times of intimacy except when we want to be alone in Yahweh. As a rule I don't think arousal is very healthy if you can't go all the way unless it is very light. (This policy has since changed in our household in order to be fair time-wise to those younger wives who have not reached their menopause).

        The best advice I can give to prospective wives is to live around a polygamous family a while. I'm sure many would be happy to let you do that without any committment on your part. We had one lady live around us for about 6 months and then she decided it wasn't for her (she turned out to have major problems with sexuality which needed fixing first but she wouldn't broach the subject). Transparency is important. If you have problems trusting people generally then polygyny probably isn't for you. I am sure you have been hurt and that may cause you to tread carefully with relationships. My first wife ran off with another man and that was personally devastating for me - it always is when you lose the companion of your youth. My present wives have helped ME alot to restore my self-confidence.

          I would love to spend time with a patriarchal and/or polygamous family but I don't know how likely that would be.

            If you want to come here on a vaccation, feel free. BTW, do you have any children?

        Another subject I have much curiousity about is how do headstrong and willful women learn to submit?

          Lol! With great struggling! My youngest wife is like that!

        It must be hard, even when one desperately wants to.

          That will depend on your relationship with Christ. But you should talk with my youngest about that!

        I see this as a stumbling block to the future I hope for myself and something I pray about often.

          It's THE human stumbling block. Men are headstrong in their relationship with Yahweh I've found out. I know I'm guilty. I think I must have passed it on to my children - my 4 year old said that when he's grown up he'll have a sword fight with God and win Thank goodness for innocence!

          It's really a matter of getting to know the people concerned, and getting to know Yah'shua (Jesus) together. I imagine some polygamous families would be hell for some and paradise for others. It's very much a question of listening to the Spirit and obeying its leadings.

          This probably didn't answer your questions as you would like but feel free to refine them, ask them in different ways, etc.. By all means send a list.

            I'm sure my questions are gauche and I only hope I don't offend you too much.

              You haven't offended me one bit, Rachel. I like the honest, direct approach - though finesse can be nice

                Thank you. I appreciate your openness and willingness to share with me. Let me know if my finesse is slipping.

                  You're going just fine

                I'm not always sure how to articulate what I'm trying to find out. So much of this is very new to me and I am feeling driven to learn more.

                  Yes, it looks at though you have found the path Yahweh wants you to be on. Once you've found it, you'll never be satisfied until you have found all Yahweh has for you.

                    YES! That is how I feel and I feel so anxious to begin that life, although I know I have much to learn before I'll be ready.

                      We're never ready and we never measure up. We're as ready to enter plural marriage as we are to receive Christ as Saviour. The only qualification is an unmistakable call to live the principle.

                  Hope this has been helpful.

                    It has been helpful. You are miles further down the road from me and that's daunting but good in the sense that I'm looking for guidance. I can't imagine being where you are now.

                      One day I'll say the same to you For sure you have things to teach everyone.

                    Thank you for taking the time to write me.

    Author: SBSK

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    Updated on 29 May 2016

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