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    Book of Enoch: Inspired or Fraudulent? Threads

    The purpose of this Group is to examine the claims made by the pseudepigraphical book of Enoch which many Messanics view as inspired scripture (this ministry does not). We shall here examine the claims and the evidence and why occultists love it...

    Introduction to the Book of Enoch

    The Book of Enoch (also 1 Enoch[1]) is a pseudepigraphic work ascribed to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah and son of Jared (Genesis 5:18).

    While this book today is non-canonical in most Christian Churches, it was explicitly quoted[2]:8 in the New Testament (Letter of Jude 1:14-15) and by many of the early Church Fathers. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church to this day regards it to be canonical.

    It is wholly extant only in the Ge'ez language, with Aramaic fragments from the Dead Sea Scrolls and a few Greek and Latin fragments. There is no consensus among Western scholars about the original language: some propose Aramaic, others Hebrew, while the probable thesis according to E. Isaac is that 1 Enoch, as Daniel, was composed partially in Aramaic and partially in Hebrew[2]:6. Ethiopian scholars hold that Ge'ez is the language of the original from which the Greek and Aramaic copies were made, pointing out that it is the only language in which the complete text has been found[3].

    According to Western scholars its older sections (mainly in the Book of the Watchers) date from about 300 BC and the latest part (Book of Parables) probably was composed at the end of 1st century BC[4]; It is argued that all the writers of the New Testament were familiar with it and were influenced by it in thought and diction.[5] - see Wikipedia Book of Enoch.

    The R.H.Charles Translation (the one I use) may be viewed here. Also view the Dead Seas Scrolls (DSS) version.

    See Complete Discussion listing for this group.

    Comment by Doug Dayhuff on July 28, 2009 at 4:24am
    we are also glad Christopher taught on this as well, as one of the teachers we tried to learn from promoted this book. It was more of a curiostiy for us than anything and I never took anything from it to share with our congregatiom.

    Comment by Andrew mwangi muchangi on July 27, 2009 at 11:05am
    wow,today i just tried to read the book,its very interesting,but i wont read it for more holiness or increase in faith,its somehow revealing the vampires and how they have brought suffering to mankind and there eternal judgement,lets read it altogether for the bible says enock was a good man and was taken by God as a sign of the rapture,dear christopher if there some more books dont hesitate to expose all,we have to know what has been revealed in any way in this wicked days,YAH BLESS,

    Comment by DR on July 13, 2009 at 7:22am
    Doug, from what I understand, the Book of Enoch is largely Ethiopian, with some non-extant Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. It isn't from the Alexandrian manuscripts or Textus Receptus (although there are other manuscript streams, too).

    I hope this is of help to you.

    Comment by Doug Dayhuff on July 13, 2009 at 5:40am
    There are two streams of manuscripts from which all translations come from. One is Antioch and the other Alexandria. Does anyone know what steam "The Book of Enoch" came from?

    Comment by Avah on July 13, 2009 at 5:00am
    Scott, you said - " I am sorry, but all NCCG is is a denomination, and that is condemned in 1 Corinthians 1, and also is not teaching Scripture, but teaching the doctrines, traditions, and commandments of men and that is condemned in Colossians 2. I understand now why you claim the Book of Enoch is not from YHVH. The versions and teachings that NCCG teaches is not from YHVH and must then denounce anything and anyone that is."

    First of all, we can disagree in love. :) Secondly, we are not a denomination, we are a group of people who love Yahweh and are striving to know Him and serve Him in shalom and love.

    I am not a bible scholar, frankly I am not interested in being one, but I am interested in serving Yahweh and serving others, and that includes you. :) My prayer is that Yahweh bless you and fill your life and heart with all that He is and that as the body of Christ, we learn to love and be patient and kind with one another.

    Comment by Lev/Christopher on July 12, 2009 at 11:27pm
    You have passed many judgments, brother, and if I may say so, presumptuously. For one thing, we have no 'authoritative' translation that we use - we recommend a multiplicity of versions. We are cogniscent of Westcott-Hort deficiencies but we are equally cogniscent of the fact that there are many Byzantine or Received texts. We do not recognise pseudo-scholars like Gail Riplinger whose writings are so riddled with errors as to have no credibility whatsoever. Which version do you use? And on what basis do you select that version? As for the 1611 Version of the KJV, it doesn't exist anymore - it was lost long ago. I respect everyone right to choose which version(s) they believe to be best (and that's the best you can do, because none is perfect). But rather than get into the KJV-Only hocuspocus here, I will create a separate group for those who want to amicably discuss the question without all the immature mud-slinging that often happens when people defend positions based as much on hormones as reason. I really don't follow your logic at all as fas as the Book of Enoch is concerned - we already know its provenance and roughly when it was written - it is a 'modern' conconction.

    The position of this ministry (which you will see from the main page here) is that we only accept the Protestant Canon of the Version as authoritative - everything else we regard as speculative. Those who want a Protestant Canon-Plus discussion group need to find another group so as not to disturb the harmony of this group. And with respect, I have met so many "messengers" with so many different 'positions' that the fact that they claim to be "messengers of YHVH" or some other deity does not really phase me any more. They can't all be bona fide messengers and teach conflicting messages. I recommend that the "messengers" start their own groups, collect their disciples and remnants, and see whether they have Yahweh's approbation or not over a period of time. Given that they all say contradictory things, they are walking a tightrope. It is, as I have said elsewhere, to have convictions and be passionate about them but once those convictions lead these "messengers" into pomposity and judgment of others, and once the very clear fruits of the Ruach/Spirit start disappearing from them and are replaced by another spirit, then I am forced to start drawing lines here. There are altogether far too many Moses-men and self-appointed prophets who just love to judge and condemn but have little idea how to love people as people instead of as mere recipients of theology. I have also noticed, incidentally, how "messengers" come into groups like ours having set themselves up as potential martyrs in advance by "predicting", or even goading, moderators like myself to "throw them out". We have enough room in our heart to embrace people of different theologies, recognising that we are all still in the process of coming to unity in the faith, but where we become "intolerant" - and unashamedly so - is when people come here trying to lord it over others and seek to divide souls who are enjoying the simplicity of faith and union brought by the Ruach in love through pleas of theological correctness.

    Again, I ask: what does the Book of Enoch have to say about salvation that is not already contained within the Protestant Canon? And as a follow-up, what is deficient about the Protestant Canon? In the end it doesn't matter how many scriptures you add to the Bible to try and create harmony and unity because you could have a thousand bona fide scriptural texts and still have disunity, and that because what brings souls to unity is the Ruach, not human acumen.

    You won't find unity through having a 'perfect' Bible translation - even the KJV-Onlyers disagree and quarrel amongst themselves in spite of having am imaginary 'perfect' version which even its original tranlators denied.

    For those who want to know more about the KHV-Only Cult, please click the link below:

    We are not here to bash anyone on the head and we expect our members to refrain from that bullyish practice too. If any man be a "prophet" let him be recognised as one first, with signs accompanying.

    Comment by Scott Ledbetter on July 12, 2009 at 10:53pm
    Lev/Christopher, you said, "I believe you are wise to be cautious, Andrew. People have been saved and gone to heaven without any of the pseudepigrapha (I keep telling Mormons this too - if the Book of Mormon was so important [assuming it was true}, why wait until 1830?)" I could say that of all the modern translations because they use the Westcott-Hort perversion of Greek. Why would YHVH wait 1850+ years and not allow all those who came before to have the real Scripture? He would not, and so all these so-called changes come from HaSatan and not from YHVH.

    NCCG recommend The Scriptures. This is a version that uses Nazi Hebrew Scripture for it's Tanach. Teach Hebrew Scriptures by using the muderers of the Hebrews own words. I am sorry, but all NCCG is is a denomination, and that is condemned in 1 Corinthians 1, and also is not teaching Scripture, but teaching the doctrines, traditions, and commandments of men and that is condemned in Colossians 2. I understand now why you claim the Book of Enoch is not from YHVH. The versions and teachings that NCCG teaches is not from YHVH and must then denounce anything and anyone that is.

    Comment by Scott Ledbetter on July 12, 2009 at 10:23pm
    Lev/Christopher, You said, "Jude 14-15
    "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

    First off, I do not use the NKJV because it uses Westocott-Hort's Greek Version - which is praised by the same witches that also praise the Book of Enoch so I do not know why you accept one while rejecting the other - and a Nazi Leader's fathers Hebrew version.

    Secondly, you did not quote the entire verse. Verse 14 says - in the NKJV - "And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, 'Behold [YHVH] cometh with ten thousands of His saints'". It plainly says that this came from Encoch, the seventh from Adam.

    And now who can say if this book originally came from Enoch or not? Are we going by the wisdom ofmen and not the wisdom of YHVH? YHVH chose to put this specifically in the book of Jude. So what part of the book of Enoch is anyone saying is going against Scripture? HaSatan has done his best to use the "wise men" (Greek: magi) of this world to take more and more out of Scripture. In my lesson series entitled "What is the truth?", you will see how that HaSatan has been just carving up Scripture using the theologians and "biblical scholars" to back him up.

    I have actually two copies of the Book of Enoch. I have read it several times. I have not found anything in there that contradicts Scripture, unless you are of the RCC point of view that says there are no fallen angels. Then of course you wold throw out the book of Enoch. The Book of Mormon clearly contradicts Scripture. I have not read the Book of Yasher, so I can not tell you if it does or does not.

    And for the record, I have the KJV, the 1611 KJV, and the 1599 Geneva Bible. But any version that came after 1880 I will not use because they are all tainted, and eventhough this may get me kicked out for saying this, those that use those versions are not the wheat but are tares just teaching HaSatan's doctrines instead of Scripture. If I am kicked out for saying that, so be it, for if you reject the truth sent by the messenger of YHVH, you have rejected Him, and in rejecting Him, you have not only denied Him, but you have also slandered or balsphemed the Ruach HaKodesh. I am not sent to convert, but to teach, and let people choose whether to accept the Truth of YHVH or reject it.

    One last thing, there are not going to be millions that are saved and go to heaven. There will be a puny amount, 10 thousand, and that is from the time of Pentecost til the rapture. People can be converted to Satan's doctrines and not the doctrines of YHVH. They can claim they are saved and show some sort or "sign", but that does not make them wheat in the kingdom.

    Comment by Lev/Christopher on July 11, 2009 at 3:23am
    I believe you are wise to be cautious, Andrew. People have been saved and gone to heaven without any of the pseudepigrapha (I keep telling Mormons this too - if the Book of Mormon was so important [assuming it was true}, why wait until 1830?). Historically I notice what Yahweh has provided (Divine Providence) and I observe that the Protestant Canon has demonstrated itself to be adequate. If it weren't, Yahweh must have done a bade job in 'providing'. Same with the King James-Only hocus-pocus - people were saved reading the Geneva Bible and other versions before that and are today in heaven. I observe the millions being converted by the Bible alone in China and India - with power and signs - and I again see Yahweh's providence.

    Comment by Andrew mwangi muchangi on July 11, 2009 at 2:01am
    I am just trying to be careful of myself,i believe nothing can inspire me most like the bible that i have known since childhood,however anything contrary to tha bible will be another story altogether,mark the way its written it simply looks as onother chapter in the bible that we have and will always love,hope my conscience will be clean and my mind perfect even as i leap carefully to exp[lore the unknown,shalom.

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