Lev,

A few thoughts just pondering not saying anything against nor for anyone or of any learning but that purpose is for discerning of our Life.

I cannot come to reason, seeing the true temple and Rosh Pina, the Living Shabbat eternal who is at the right hand of YHWH today, how anything is not discerned by the Life of our Aleph-Taw who is Being All Things and is making us to Know YHWH already by His Life of His Blood and we are Living Stones in a real temple far better than anything that will ever be made of dust. A dust temple will be for the man of perdition seeing the story is already told and YHWH has moved on in building His true dwelling place of which we are Being. Our High Priest is performing perfectly and thankfully so! For we are His body!

Will YHWH Yahushua appear upon the Ark hidden by a veil in a temple built by man again even while He is building His true temple of Living Stones? Will he untear the veil and go back to the shadow story once more? I do not see how anything can be discerned if that original story is not understood and that Rosh Pina is Rock Solid harder than a Dust temple stone.

What did Messiah mean when He said these words and we know He understood Sabbath and Rosh Chodesh.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Why did he not say we need to figure out the Torah apart from His becoming that door and do those things to please YHWH? Why did he make himself out to be the door or the gate? And the revealer of His Torah, His Heart, the Life of It of His very Heart and Being to even come live within us! Was he not pleasing Father by replacing the literal doings by becoming the point of it all? And then we can discern ALL of Torah by Yahushua! Are some afraid to jump in and interpret His way? If we know now who He is, can we replace hidden meanings with His Name, His Doings, His Being, and All of His Aleph-Taw's?

Is He having man restore the physical temple and old Torah constructs again? The shadows of Messiah's Heart after He has Become what YHWH (Y) said?

Why did Yahushua say this?

John 4:21 Yahushua saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of Yahuda (Yahushua like his brothers, He was standing there!). 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. Yahuweh Elohim is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Should we ever even imply, that the Son of YHWH the Living Torah glorious in His awesome splendor making all things and the Light of all mankind, is not the importance of everything learned or told? Did He tell us plainly enough in His Heart interpretations when He was on the earth face to face with the disciples?

That of our Heart, of that inward Torah, that when revealed to our Mind, Heart to Heart by Hearing that Voice within, is ever of lesser importance than knowing of outward doings and even of the Sabbath and Rosh Codesh that Yahushua is Being? Is there any other importance than learning of the written word by the Life of it, of How Yahushua was and is and is becoming but better said as His Being?

And in that is overcoming of all things! To know our vows of the Ten Commandments and the overcoming power of Life where we are in a Covenant to the Living Covenant to get His good Unleavened Manna from His Heart. That shadow told of the Ark of the Covenant. But, in light of that awesome Torah of the Inward Man, are we to find something else YHWH wants us to do to please Him of the Torah of an outward witness of any other meaning than showing who Messiah is and has become? Maybe missing the point of everything He has shown and done in the Way, the Truth and the Life who is Yahushua?

And having that Life is there anything YHWH is requiring outside of the faith of Hearing the Living Word of living in salvation, our Yahushua, 24 x 7? That is the Only Way we can Keep the Commandments He shows to us to live in every single day. And to be a witness of Yahushua to the lost who must find salvation before their days end? Do we live and move and have our being in Him?

If more would emphasize that for doing or learning anything it would all point back to the same thing, to have true Life in remission of sin of the One Yahushua who is literally being all things made to the Light of all mankind. And that Being is Shalom and our true Rest eternal as this current world and it's delusions will be melted down in fervent heat.

So we know the answer, even at our last heart beat, will the outward keeping have been of more importance than to Keep Yahushua and that faith that comes from hearing His voice? And what freedom do we have in Him that is so precious and valuable?

(Not saying these things to anyone but myself to ponder.)

Now are we looking for this to come to pass or for a physical temple? Will Messiah return to dwell in a temple made of rock and dust or could there be something better?

Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for YHWH Elohim Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of YHWH Elohim did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it.

Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honor of the nations into it.

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

To discern, is this before the thousand year reign or after?

If after, what happens before? What will be done with Yom Teruah and Yom HaKippurim? Is this the regathering and restoration or am I missing something? Is Yahushua doing these things perfectly or is man to do them for Him?

I take your points. I am not, incidentally, questioning the "inner Torah" for one second nor am I suggesting a restoration of the Old. My question is: what is the set-apart lifestyle of those who have the Living Torah within? There has to be order in the Kingdom.

Yes Lev, I understand, not questioning you.

Here is my testimony of what I believe to be of importance:

There comes a point in our walk where we understand that definition of set-apart lifestyle is to do what Messiah leads each of us to do in listening to Him one on one, Heart to Heart and that cannot be determined by man. However, that is truly found in the baptism of the Holy Spirit of a true relationship with Him.

Now, understanding that in light of this, that we are not all eyes, or ears or noses in analogy but all have a part to fill in the body of our Messiah. And if we are given charge to teach, to be a pastor, an evangelist, or whatever other part, the answer to your question as we know gets into sorting out details of an acceptable standard for all in our fellowship, which may vary from one fellowship to another but we do see the freedom of our Messiah of just being in that place where we are doing our best to what we know to do, but not where we limit freedom in Him but expound on that freedom we have in Him so that He will bring in the lost and cause His people to grow. A true family relationship within the body, but of course built upon a foundation of Love, Mercy and reconciliation where we show that fruit of our remission of sin. The pattern shown in Corinthians, and built upon Torah, Shabbat, and the understandings we've been given in these days to do our best with what we are shown. But always keeping Messiah first in everything, and doing as a witness of Him and the Life we have. Not letting the outward doing ever replace the true Life Messiah has become. And that takes discernment of the Holy Spirit and hearing that voice. So, we do not judge others but learn that some have discovered that true freedom in Messiah where He is totally in charge.

Our base, and foundation being salvation built upon the Rock, Yahushua as the Rosh Pina and our shepherd we can and do hear. From our receiving of His salvation to then being conformed to be like Him from baby to mature. And knowing that Messiah speaks to the Heart, the number one thing that should be taught to all is to learn to listen to that voice, to have revelation of Heart first by Messiah, to point the way to Him.

When I was young I can remember that being the core teaching of the gatherings I was involved in. Not to follow a man, pastor or "Rabbi" or anyone else, but to hear the voice of our shepherd and to listen to no other. Many of the older generation of pastors had that right and were not trying to build up a big social gathering where money or spiritual self-importance becomes the core of deciding what to and not to do or say. Hats off to those who went out visiting their congregation, stepping in to help, teaching, giving of their life to others, showing how to be that good servant our Messiah desires, but we each one become a servant to all and live to help each other. And from that I am here because a humble Baptist pastor listened to Messiah and gave of his life to some young boys needing salvation! And that example we should show if we even do get to wash the feet of others. To be honored by Messiah in that way, there is nothing better. Isn’t it a tragedy that the entertainment mentality crept in over time and that servant attitude of many of the body changed to one of ‘serve me’, ‘entertain me’ from the body to the leaders. And that broke the camel’s back.

If this generation of believers were rooted in just that simple understanding, to follow the voice of our great Messiah, what would this world be like?

Now, Jeremiah 5 & 6 are playing again in this generation as in Revelation 13:7. And YHWH is holding the leaders who have taken his glory accountable. It doesn't matter what we call ourselves, flavor of Church, not church, Torah keepers, Hebraic roots, Messianic on and on, He is looking at individual hearts. One on one. And we are either doing and following His voice or not.

Instead today, we see many voices of 'shepherds' saying follow me, do this, do that, on and on. What would we find if we wrote down a list of what is required of YHWH according to so many different groups out there? And the only solution is that all get back to that voice of Messiah and to hear what He is saying and not what man is presuming He is saying. I believe He is saying, hey guys, did you forget to be doing my work outside the gate? Have you entered in yet? Is the gate you are making better than the one I have become?

(Lev, understand I am not saying this of you or judging anyone, just pointing out what I believe to be first things first. I am thankful from what I’ve found in your forum, and I am not out for myself or to get followers or care for such. Just to give and have a place to learn and grow in sharing these things. To say anything of Heart matters and not of outward doings for YHWH is looking at the Heart and then if we have good fruit we give honor to our savior and to our Father.)

Now, that said in light of those who do not teach new converts or other family members to listen only to the voice of our Messiah. Even what we give is just a testimony of our Life and should be pointing to the Way, the Truth and the Life.

How hard would it be for some of the pastors, teachers, leaders of our day to tell the people who are following them to begin to listen only to Messiah? That He is the Word dwelling within and He can only be discerned by Hearing His voice? That would destroy the control factor where the leaven has crept in of any of those things man holds in higher esteem than the Living Torah Yahushua. Even those doctrines of man not of Yahushua that are an abomination to YHWH.

John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Now if we are uplifting Messiah above all in high esteem and having fellowship with those who are listening to the same voice instead of man, there is unity and freedom. There is no message of condemnation but of reconciliation. There is no fighting, debate or strife in those hearing the voice of the shepherd. He gives each one to do their part, to share in part to uplift and to build up the body. To live in shalom where we enjoy that good fellowship.

And we can see what fruit is being produced and will know if the root teaching and things done are of Messiah or not. We can see if there is fighting, or strife, or disagreement and where man is making light of the Living Torah by being unable to be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

And just to mention, I appreciate your forum here and the freedom of fellowship and in being able to grow and learn even in allowing these discussions where we become as iron sharpening iron.

I understand the issues, the refusal of some to understand and the reasons but that overcoming is found in this saying: “No more to the work of our own hands”. . . Let Messiah and then we will see victory in what we are longing for to see revival and that Power He will give.

I wonder what an Isaiah would be thought of in today’s world? Of course arrested and put in a mental facility. Running around naked in the country side for three years? Now, what would we think of that sinner? What is YHWH telling today?

Isaiah 20:2 At the same time spoke YHWH by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot. 3 And YHWH said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia; . . .

I’m thankful he has not said that to me. And, would the esteem of man be in question vs. the esteem of YHWH? I wonder if Isaiah was able to go to Shabbat fellowship or had to keep it to himself for three years?

Blessings, Shalom and great fellowship. Rodney

I am in total agreement with you as to the improtance of "first things" - there has never been any argument over that in this ministry. We take that as 'given' and aim to help those who see the outer first get back to the core truths of relationship with Yah'shua. BUT we do still have to deal with externals - the Body of Messiah is community and the community can't just rush off in a dozen different directions doing its 'own thing' if we are to fulfil the commission to be one (echad) on all things. The lifestyle of the Messianic Community can't be that complicated. So whilst the inner is the prime thing, the outer can't be ignored either - the inner life requires external expression in truth too. If these articles are correct then they resolve with one stroke all the calendar problems that currently exist in Messianism and make everything so much simpler (though bringing in problems in terms of employment with the world). Therefore I feel it is a subject that needs thrashing out (however tedious) - if it brings more unity to the Body then the effort will be justified.

Yes that is the intent! (See?) Set the precedence as to common ground as what is important to make sure we are on the same page before getting into the details.

As many issues, I do not see them in the light of one precept vs. another nor is opposing anything presumed or thought about anyone.

For example we've seen debate where there should be no debate on many things. In debate of those, used in example here, where some claim pre-existence of Messiah and some claim that he was created and did not pre-exist, wind up opposing each other. Well if we back up a little in perspective and see what is going on we could say well both are right and both are wrong. Let Messiah show who He is and we are shown the pattern of Adam, Dust + Spirit of YHWH connected, became disconnected, YHWH not looking upon sin. And then we come to know Messiah as He is, Spirit of YHWH living in the created Unleavened Bread body as a man connected and One/Echad and just as said the second Adam as He is made whole again. A pattern for us all!

So, statement for statement is the idea and agreeing but also showing what is my testimony of priority though I do not think that has to match perfectly with anyone. I love to lift up Messiah just like I see Him and am shown as we all do the same and we all give in part. And am not opposed to being corrected if necessary that I would not ever want to mislead or be witness of anything else but our Messiah and our relationship He has made with our Father.

Now in this discussion of that document the first things I read is promotion of a physical temple and setting up restoration without Messiah being that restoration? Has he given men to do the restoration without Him? Or is it that He is dwelling within us and doing it through us while He is still on the throne in Heaven? That I am not understanding and is not spelled out well enough to define as to what is being promoted.

That said as I believe Messiah will physically come and perform the Yom Teruah and Yom HaKippurim literally just like He did the other feasts. Not said thinking you don't feel the same way but as discernment of that document and what I thought I read.

And as I mentioned yes the details of lifestyle as far as what is required by each particular fellowship is necessary. And I do say in my testimony that the voice of Messiah is very clear because he is telling all the same thing as far as what is the main thing to be doing in His work outside the gate. Whatever we do is to lift HIm up to draw men unto Him, and even using those unique new understandings of things that may be revealed of old things to accomplish the task He has commanded to all.

To do things, or adopt new things, not used or presented properly may destroy or put stumblingblocks if we are not careful that might destroy the faith of some. And we want to make sure it is done in Spirit and Truth that creates more Oil and not the opposite of it as in strife and argument, etc.

And as we know even those things of doctrines we've already thrown out that will never be able to glorify and uplift YHWH Yahushua to do HIs will and are adding those things that bear witness of Messiah within. And many times it is simple as to who is interpreting the same words, man or the Holy Spirit.

In many of the things I see, it is more like this saying, we have heard the lesser of two evils, but also what is the greater of two goods. And, emphasizing the Messiah part of becoming the Life is so much better in my writing, and never supposing you do not understand nor is it to do anything but share my testimony as I see things and have understanding. And as iron sharpens iron file off any dull edges of Heart of Spirit and Truth. And we knowing that to esteem Messiah highly is important because He will then draw all men to himself as we lift Him up. And that is done by showing the Torah in witness of Him and I do emphasize that it is only any good where Yahushua is discerned and we know that. But, I say it anyway! Nothing said is to be taken as disagreement with you at all or I am presuming anything, and said only in that unity we know of the Holy Spirit and am enjoying the great fellowship.

Now, I may be mistaken, is this new calandar teaching promoting the restoration of the temple made of Dust and is that of any importance to the Kingdom of YHWH where we are built together as Living Stones already in His Temple? Will YHWH dwell again in a temple made of Dust? Is that what I am reading correctly in to this document? And is it copyrighted or freely given so that it could be used in greater truth? There are some very good things I've learned from many places and ministries where sometimes it takes applying a little more Messiah into it to get the full understanding.

I cannot comment on the wider implications of what the authors believe in - I do not believe in the restoration of a temple of dust as they seem to - but I do believe we are to observe the moedim in the proper season. That's all that concerns me so that I can get on with proclaiming the inner work.

Lev, what are your initial thoughts on the calendar?

Well, if it's correct, it resolves the Rosh Chodesh issue which I have had for some time...apart from being a marker of time I have never fully understood what it was for. If this system is right, then it truly is a 'rosh' and a gathering day for the set-apart ones.

I need to study it out more carefully as it is important. If it's true it means a radical change in lifestyle - it will make the computing of the festivals very easy indeed! It still raises the unresolved (in my mind) question of WHICH New Moon - the Jerusalem one or where you happen to live (that could make for many calendars) - and finally crescent vs. new moon (though I an pretty much convinced it is new).





Rodney D Ready said:

Lev, what are your initial thoughts on the calendar?

Lev,

I've gone over these documents and there was a new one today on Aviv that I already agree with 100%.

The Shabbat/Rosh Chodesh pattern is amazing and we see that wisdom being given in these days to restore the set times and seasons.

The mention of we going up to a physical temple to keep these things is the only thing so far that I have not fully understood unless in the view point of YHWH's chosen servants to do that in the face of the anti-messiah who has setup camp there before the return of Yahushua? And we see the two witnesses proclaiming Yom Teruah after they are raised from the dead which then does our Messiah blow the shofar of the re-gathering?

It maybe is coming together but pretty hazy on some of these things for now.

What I do know is that we are operating in two parts as servants on this earth. From one perspective we are in the body of Messiah our High Priest and in light of that whether we know it or not He is performing perfectly for us if we are walking in Spirit and Truth.

On the other part we are still of the Dust and that part not fully complied nor possible without revelation of these things but we conform as we are led.

I do know YHWH will bring us to keep perfectly the appointed times as we fully trust Him even without knowing them perfectly. He will do in us what we will follow Him to allow. And real life lessons bring that trust that He will do in us what He has told us we will do for Him. Not knowing how, when, what but just trusting that it will happen as He only can bring anything to pass. And that is our faith of hearing His voice within. No matter who we are He has a perfect plan for our life that He has chosen. All any as we know must do is let go of our ways and trust fully in His. And we find that His Yoke is Easy and His Burden is Light!

So now to search these things out more and if we are feeling that voice within move us to observe these things we will do as He will make it possible.

One thing I know is significant was the Aviv of March 2007 in living experience for me and still in amazement. Just to say as we know there is more on this earth than meets the eye or our five senses would believe. I do know that YHWH Yahushua will do exactly what is planned from the beginning for each person alive if we just let Him and give our life to Him and then what will it be like when all of Redeemed Israel is standing in amazement, and that is not a good enough word.