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    Book of Jubilees

    Posted by Lev/Christopher on October 5, 2009 at 12:37pm
    in Pseudepigrapha

    The Book of Jubilees is an interesting one. I can understand why people would want it to be inspired but like the Book of Enoch it is clearly of late provenance and does contain some glaring errors. There are many things that convince me it is not inspired:

    1. It denies the resurrection of the physical body;
    2. It assumes an impossible solar year of 364 days;
    3. It has Hasmonean elements in it, showing that it is from a far later period than Genesis (see below);
    4. It calculates the Global Flood as occurring in 1307 AM, when in fact the genealogical records in Genesis 5 tell us that the Flood happened at 1656 AM. Thus we see three hundred forty-nine missing years. Interestingly, the Hillel Calendar is about two hundred forty two years shorter than Ussher's chronology, but for reasons that would not become relevant until long after the Book of Jubilees was written;
    5. It records the births of Shem, Ham, and Japheth out of their likely order. Genesis 5 and Genesis 11, when compared, clearly show that Shem was not Noah's first-born. Furthermore, Jubilees' date for the birth of Arpachshad is not in accord with Shem being one hundred years old at the time, and giving birth to Arpachshad two years after the Flood. (see http://www.itsaboutthattime.net/is_jubilees_inspired.htm)

    Another problem is that it's a third-hand translation at best: Hebrew > Greek > Ethiopic - we only have the Ethiopic version. The Hebrew fragments we have correspond only to a tiny portion of the original. It probably comes from the Harmonean period which is far, far removed from the time period it purportedly represents, probably being no older that ~150 BC:

    "Some scholars attempt to identify alleged biblical events in the Book of Jubilees with events from the early Hasmonean period, especially battles fought with neighboring peoples (see Charles, The Book of Jubilees, lvi, lxii–lxiii; VanderKam, Textual and Historical Studies in the Book of Jubilees, 217–46). Thus, the latest possible date of an event identified would be the earliest possible date for the composition of the Book of Jubilees. R. H. Charles claims that Jub. 30:4-6, the narrative of the destruction of Schechem, actually alludes to the subjugation of the Samaritans under John Hyrcanus about four years before his death in 105 BCE (The Book of Jubilees, lxii). Thus, he concludes that the terminus a quo for the composition of the Book of Jubilees would be after that event between 109-105 BCE. It is doubtful, however, that Charles is correct in seeing the subjugation of the Samaritans in Jub. 30:4-6. J. VanderKam argues that the event described in Jub. 23:21 follows the Maccabean revolt and “could depict the appointment of Alcimus in 162 and his infidelity to the Chasidim who had accepted him” (Textual and Historical Studies in the Book of Jubilees, 254). According to VanderKam, Jub. 23:22–23 depicts “the Syrian invasions of Judea during Alcimus’ term of office” (254). J. Endres agrees that “those who have escaped and not returned from their wickedness” are the pro-Hellenistic High Priest Alcimus and his political faction, who opposed Judas and his followers, but received the support of the Hasidim (1 Macc 7:5–18; 2 Macc 14:3–10; Ant. 12.391–93) (Biblical Interpretation in the Book of Jubilees, 55–56). This allows the establishment of 161 BCE as the terminus a quo of at least this portion of the Book of Jubilees. There are, however, too few clear historical allusions in Jub. 23:21–23 to the events surrounding the appointment of Alcimus as High Priest to accept VanderKam’s hypothesis. For example, VanderKam must interpret the reference to the defilement of the Holy of Holies in Jub. 23:21 symbolically: “The reference to the Holy of Holies is probably a figurative way of saying that he had defiled his office by his conduct” (254). The more natural interpretation would be the desecration of the altar (1 Macc 1:54; 2 Macc 6:2). It is probably better to interpret the events of Jub. 23:21–23 as antedating the Maccabean revolt. Tcherikover holds that there were two rebellions, the first led by the Chasidim in response to the political and economic changes instituted in Jerusalem in 175 BCE, which was the reason for Antiochus’ intervention and imposition of his draconian measures (see 2 Macc 5:5–10), and the second, the better-known Maccabean revolt (Hellenistic Civilization and the Jews, chap. 5). Thus Jub. 23:16–20 would describe the first rebellion, Jub. 23:21–25 Antiochus’ persecution and Jub. 23:26–30 the successful Maccabean revolt just underway at the time of the author’s composition of this work. It is possible, nevertheless, that Jub. 37:1–38:14 may reflect the battle between Judas’ campaigns in 163 BCE (1 Macc 5; Ant. 12.327–53; see 2 Macc 10:14–23; 12:10–46) (VanderKam, Textual and Historical Studies in the Book of Jubilees, 230–38). - http://www.abu.nb.ca/Courses/NTIntro/InTest/Jubilees.htm

    Also:

    "That the Book of Jubilees was written sometime in the first half of the second century BCE is confirmed by the fact that, for the author, Hellenization still appears to be a threat; it has not yet receded into the collective memory of the Jewish people to become a past event. Polemic against Hellenizing Jews can be found in Jub. 3:31 (Against public nakedness; see 1 Macc 1.13–14) and Jub. 15.33–34 (Against not circumcising; see 1 Macc 1.15, 63; 2:20, 27; 4:10). In addition, the eschatological perspective of the Book of Jubilees presupposes that only a short period of time between the beginning of the (anticipated) national revolt and the composition of the text has elapsed. In Jub. 23.16–32, it is said that, after national apostasy (Hellenization), the younger generation will arise, and return to God; as a result, God will progressively bring about the eschatological blessings promised by the prophets. From the author’s standpoint the benefits occasioned by national repentance and renewed obedience to the Law will occur in the near future. Since these eschatological blessing did not come as expected, the author must be writing at time when the possibility that they would come still existed, that is, shortly after the beginnings of the Maccabean revolt. It is always possible, however, that Jub. 23:16–32 was composed earlier than the rest of the Book of Jubilees and was later incorporated into the larger work." (Ibid.)


    Hello Lev,

    Wow,
    I wasn't expecting such a response.
    Permit me some time to digest it.

    What I can say with certainty now though is that those who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls thought it inspired (their version anyway) as well as the Book of Enoch.
    The group of people who wrote the DSS were blessed with the likes of John the Baptist and our Lord was keenly aware of them (spoke for and against some of their ideas directly) and many of the new believers were from their ranks (the communal living in Acts for example). If it were not for the Scrolls we would not understand alot including the other Pentecosts of New Wine and New Oil. The New Wine Pentecost being spoken of in Acts 2 directly.
    The earliest Christians were thoroughly versed in the Book of Jubilees as well.

    In my mind the Dead Sea Scrolls with Jubilees and Enoch have been "resurrected" for us directly.

    I will get back to you on the other points you make.

    Thanks,

    Shalom Cindy

    I have no doubt that both the Books of Enoch and Jubilees were based, in part, on genuine historical material. And who amongst us does not want to know more about material scantily covered in the Old Testament? The DDS communities were not unlike us - seekers - hungry for truth and who searched for more light wherever they could find it. However, there were "all sorts" just as there "all sorts" in the Messianic Movement today and they were not infallible. I think it's important to consider why the Council of Jamnia excluded books like Enoch and Jubilees from the OT canon. In the final analysis, popularity (and these books were doubtless popular both in before and after Messiah) cannot be a reliable gague fpr assessing inspiration. What attracts people to Enoch (for example) is all the "high drama" (just like people are attracted to action movies today) and I have no doubt the author(s) were cogniscent of that. Look at the popularity of the Book of Mormon which appealed to the 19th century rustic (even though its grammar and style was appalling). So these are difficult questions.

    There was a time when I was enamoured by the Apocrypha - I think in part because they "weren't there" i the Bible and in part because they offered to fill in missing gaps. But again, why the the Council of Jamnia exclude them? For many reasons but one was they contained contradictory material and historically inaccurate material. If people are to have confidence in Scripture it must be true.

    Admittedly these are not easy questions. Undoubtedly the Pseudepigrapha can give us insights into the thinking and belief (and who know, perhaps even inspiration) of the authors who wrote them from their own time periods. In that way they are useful. What troubles me the most about Jubilees is precisely the time period in which it was written, namely the violent and uninspired Hasmonean period when traditions had already fossilised and inspiration of the type known and accepted from Malachi and before was indisputable. They have a different "spirit" to them. I want what's authentic and in spite of the temptation to have access to "secrets" supposedly excluded from the OT (personally I think it is an inexaustible mine of light and truth) I prefer to stick to what is known so as not to give the enemy a back door. We are witnessing the destruction of Messianism from within precisely because people have been careless over what they admit as inspired, the Kaballah, Sephir Yetsirah and Zohar being notables. It is fine and good to search but so long as we always regard the Protestant Canon as primary, and everything else as suspect, we will be on safe ground.



    Cindy Dunlop said:
    Hello Lev,

    Wow,
    I wasn't expecting such a response.
    Permit me some time to digest it.

    What I can say with certainty now though is that those who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls thought it inspired (their version anyway) as well as the Book of Enoch.
    The group of people who wrote the DSS were blessed with the likes of John the Baptist and our Lord was keenly aware of them (spoke for and against some of their ideas directly) and many of the new believers were from their ranks (the communal living in Acts for example). If it were not for the Scrolls we would not understand alot including the other Pentecosts of New Wine and New Oil. The New Wine Pentecost being spoken of in Acts 2 directly.
    The earliest Christians were thoroughly versed in the Book of Jubilees as well.

    In my mind the Dead Sea Scrolls with Jubilees and Enoch have been "resurrected" for us directly.

    I will get back to you on the other points you make.

    Thanks,

    Hello Lev,

    Well, here are my counterpoints to your dismissal of the Book of Jubilees as inspired.
    I consider it inspired because it has furthered my understanding on many issues and given me insight.
    If you are looking for textual perfection (whatever that is-maybe the Ten on stone?) in any biblical writing you won't find it.
    As you know the NT has numerous problems which did not shake the faith of those who believed in it's True Message.

    Now, to your points....
    1. denies physical resurrection.
    You just have not seen where it is.
    The Old Testement does not have blatant physical resurrection either.
    The Saducees who ran the Second Temple did not believe in a physical resurrection.
    I think they were well versed in all writings of that period.
    Book of Jubilees
    XVIII. And God said to him, "Abraham, Abraham"; and he said, "Behold, (here) am I." 2. And He said, "Take thy beloved 3 son whom thou lovest, (even) Isaac, and go unto the high country, 4 and offer him on one of the mountains which I will point out unto thee." 3. And he rose early in the morning and saddled his ass, and took his two young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood of the burnt-offering, and he went to the place on
    the third day, and he saw the place afar off. 4. And he came to a well of water, and he said to his young men, "Abide ye here with the ass, and I and the lad shall go (yonder), and when we have worshipped we shall come again to you." 5. And he took the wood of the burnt-offering and laid it on Isaac his son, and he took in his hand the fire and the knife, and they went both of them together to that place.

    Now, Abraham could have thought that YH'H would relinquish from His request. Although, highly unlikely since He never relinquished from any of His other requests. Or, Abraham, like Paul said, knew that YH'H could bring Isaac back from the dead.

    Hbr 11:17
    By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
    Hbr 11:18
    of whom it was said, "In Isaac your seed shall be called,"
    Hbr 11:19
    concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
    Strong's G3850 - parabolē
    b) an example by which a doctrine or precept is illustrated

    ie. the doctrine of Resurrection.

    2. solar year 364 days.
    I need a reference in Jubilees for this. I have heard this remark about Enoch of which I believe was a scribal error and should read 346 which to understand what that number means is beyond the scope of this thread.

    Just because we do not understand does not mean the Book is not inspired.

    Your other points of 3. and 4. might be in fact correct.
    If that is your criteria then we should dismiss the New Testament Writings as well.
    Bart Ehrman has built a career on exposing all the glaring errors in the NT.

    For me I do not put my faith in or deny my insights based upon differences in dates per se (especially the flood date-people can't even agree what year crucifixion happened), nor do I deny my faith or insights because of discrepancies in the New Testament Writ compared to other writings, nor do I put my faith in the conclusions of DSS scholars. These were the same people who told us the Essenes used only a solar calendar- er WRONG and gave dates for Feasts that are still WRONG.
    I've discovered a person has to read the book themself and prayerfully consider what the Lord wants you to get out of it. I have reread the same NT or OT book and received much.
    As well, the books considered inspired by the writers of the Dead Sea Scrolls including Jubilees and Enoch.
    So, my belief in an inspired writing is not based upon someone's textual criticism and giving it their blessing or not.
    I enjoy reading about their observations, but conclusions are subjective.

    The Holy Ruach teaches me what is important. Discrepancies if important enough are worked out later.The Passover event discrepancy between the first four books of NT has recently been figured out due to the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. I never thought the book of Luke was uninspired because it called the Last supper the Passover which was the night before the Passover/crucifixion.

    To address point 5.
    In the Holy Writ Shem is listed first.
    Gen 5:32
    And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
    Gen 6:10
    And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
    DSS page 96 (Wise, Abegg, and Cook) says Shem is eldest son.
    In Book of Jubilees Shem is listed first as well.

    Arphaxad born two years after flood is correct.
    Gen 11:10
    This is the genealogy of Shem: Shem was one hundred years old, and begot Arphaxad two years after the flood.
    DSS page 96 again confirms Arphaxad two years after flood.
    Book of Jubilees
    18. And these are the sons of Shem: Elam, and Asshur, and Arpachshad--this (son) was born two years after the flood--and Lud, and Aram.

    Show me some verses that describe your predicament about Shem's age regarding this. I can't find a verse in Jubilees which indicates Shems age when Arpachshad(-xad) was born.

    Thanks,

    Hello Again Lev,

    You wrote....
    "I have no doubt that both the Books of Enoch and Jubilees were based, in part, on genuine historical material. And who amongst us does not want to know more about material scantily covered in the Old Testament? The DDS communities were not unlike us - seekers - hungry for truth and who searched for more light wherever they could find it. However, there were "all sorts" just as there "all sorts" in the Messianic Movement today and they were not infallible. I think it's important to consider why the Council of Jamnia excluded books like Enoch and Jubilees from the OT canon. In the final analysis, popularity (and these books were doubtless popular both in before and after Messiah) cannot be a reliable gague fpr assessing inspiration. What attracts people to Enoch (for example) is all the "high drama" (just like people are attracted to action movies today) and I have no doubt the author(s) were cogniscent of that. Look at the popularity of the Book of Mormon which appealed to the 19th century rustic (even though its grammar and style was appalling). So these are difficult questions."


    The Rabbies at Jamnia did not include the book of Enoch because of it's references to "Son of Man". Anything regarding "the Nazarene" was ignored and rebuked including Isaiah 53-never read in the Synagogue. The "high drama" you talk about is nonsense. I doubt the Essenes were looking for "high drama". (Is that a slam?-you gotta do better than that) Our Lord and Savior quoted extensively from Enoch including the reference "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth". "Today you will be with me in paradise." All references from Enoch. Not to mention other references from the Book of Jubilees in the New Testament.
    Sounds like you have more consideration for biblical scholars and the blinded Jewish Rabbi es than the Words of the Lord.
    Your missing out. Too bad-your choice.
    I have no doubt much of the Holy Writ has been tampered either intentional or not. The Holy Ruach will make up for that if you want it.

    Too, you wrote...
    "There was a time when I was enamoured by the Apocrypha - I think in part because they "weren't there" i the Bible and in part because they offered to fill in missing gaps. But again, why the the Council of Jamnia exclude them? For many reasons but one was they contained contradictory material and historically inaccurate material. If people are to have confidence in Scripture it must be true."


    Faith is believing in things unseen. If you are going to get hung up on dates and Hasmonean references whether correct or not ( I put not much faith in scholars who argue alot-like Rabbi es) than how can you believe that YH'H pulled the earth out of thin air and whipped it into what we see today?
    Not to mention all the mistakes in the NT.
    You have to choose who you believe and follow. You want to see the "errors" and ignore the Light.
    If our Lord quotes Enoch I consider it inspired. I don't give a rip about Jamnia. Those who rejected our Lord have alot to answer for unfortunately and I do not want to follow their example.

    Lastly, you wrote...
    "Admittedly these are not easy questions. Undoubtedly the Pseudepigrapha can give us insights into the thinking and belief (and who know, perhaps even inspiration) of the authors who wrote them from their own time periods. In that way they are useful. What troubles me the most about Jubilees is precisely the time period in which it was written, namely the violent and uninspired Hasmonean period when traditions had already fossilised and inspiration of the type known and accepted from Malachi and before was indisputable. They have a different "spirit" to them. I want what's authentic and in spite of the temptation to have access to "secrets" supposedly excluded from the OT (personally I think it is an inexaustible mine of light and truth) I prefer to stick to what is known so as not to give the enemy a back door. We are witnessing the destruction of Messianism from within precisely because people have been careless over what they admit as inspired, the Kaballah, Sephir Yetsirah and Zohar being notables. It is fine and good to search but so long as we always regard the Protestant Canon as primary, and everything else as suspect, we will be on safe ground."

    Traditions had not "fossilized" by the Hasmonean era. You sound like you have read much quoting vanderkam, but are ignorant of the Essenes history. They rejected those "traditions" and "moved out" so to speak of mainstream Judaism. Does this "different spirit" include the book of Daniel?

    Messianism is not The Way so it will be destroyed or parts of it(actually it has been imploding for awhile now). Same goes for all man-made religions of the world and anything syncretistic. Anything contrary to YH'H will be destroyed in the end, period. The Dead Sea Scrolls are a mine of Light and Truth especially those who do not want to be in the dark in the coming times. We are to follow the Holy Ruach and our Lord's example-keep the testimony and the commandments. Obviously, you believe anything outside of your Protestant mind-set is subject to giving the "devil an entrance" and want to be "safe".

    Somehow playing it "safe" and stepping out in faith don't seem to jive in my mind.

    Anyway, great discussion.

    Well, here are my counterpoints to your dismissal of the Book of Jubilees as inspired. I consider it inspired because it has furthered my understanding on many issues and given me insight.
    If you are looking for textual perfection (whatever that is-maybe the Ten on stone?) in any biblical writing you won't find it.
    As you know the NT has numerous problems which did not shake the faith of those who believed in it's True Message.

    . . .

    If that is your criteria then we should dismiss the New Testament Writings as well.
    Bart Ehrman has built a career on exposing all the glaring errors in the NT.

    Bart Ehrman is also an atheist. I know. I read his book, Misquoting Jesus, just shortly before falling away three years ago. Unfortunately for Mr. Ehrman, we know Yehoshua existed from sources other than the Bible.

    Not to mention the extensive literature just shortly after the apostles died that support what the Bible actually says, that actually list the numerous heresies that existed at the time (since NT variants often include those -- Ehrman is aware of this) and things of that nature. Irenaeus says the 616 variant in Revelation existed even in John's day and John told them that the correct number was 666 (its my personal belief the warning was tacked at the end of Revelation by John precisely for reasons like this).

    Our earliest NT manuscript dates to around 30 years after the apostles died, more reliable than any other book in history. The New Testament is the best preserved book in all of sacred literature. So it bugs me when people point out the New Testament's "problems" in order to support outside sources. The Mormons use this same logic to back the Book of Mormon. We can construct the New Testament with (I think) 95% accuracy. As for the remaining 5%, it is nothing substantial (i.e. "Christ Jesus" instead of "Jesus Christ", things of that nature).

    I'm also troubled by people who aren't open to any scholarship that contradicts their beliefs. I have looked at the history of Christianity and I would say I'm on solid ground, because I see nothing that contradicts it and have found liberal scholarship more as an excuse not to believe.

    My question, Cindy, is why do you want to believe in Jubilees or Enoch? Do Jubilees and Enoch teach salvation or is that enough? Is the New Testament sufficient for salvation? What is lacking in the NT that we absolutely need to be saved? What are your thoughts on the earliest believers who didn't have a NT, let alone Enoch or Jubilees? Are they saved?

    I'm not trying to be contentious, but I would still like to hear your answers to these questions. Thanks. :)

    DR,

    Precisely my point, Dr, about Ehrman. Many people do not realize that those who point out errors in biblical writings are not part of the Body so why are we listening to them. I understand knowledge if you want to witness. Some sites that witness to Muslims and quote the koran are fantastic sources and so knowing the issues like textual criticism helps in some ways, but when getting puffed up about technicalities gets in the way of Insight from the Ruach then it's a hindrance.

    On the 616 versus the 666 in Revelation 99.999999% of mankind don't know what that means in the first place so bringing it into the discussion is pointless. You are a hard judge. Do you hope the Lord treats you that way?
    Do you realize the whole "the Way" movement was considered a heresy. Many consider what we are talking about here heresy. If the Lord cared about what other people think he would never have made it to the stake so be prepared to be labeled a heretic at some time.

    You are wrong about the NT being most reliable.
    The Dead Sea Scrolls outdate the NT documents by a couple hundred years.
    The Old Testament is the best preserved because of the DSS discovery, but the OT is not complete.
    The First Christians did not have the NT. They did not HAVE to have it. They had the Tanach and Prophets and the Essenes had Enoch and Jubiless in their collection of writings which I know the First Christians used as well.

    The problems with the NT or any biblical writing that is textual in nature or mistakes in names and dates or events or when the copy we have was written do not invalidate their Inspiration to me in any way.

    Why do I want to believe Enoch and Jubilees are Inspired? Well, the Lord quotes from them.
    I've listed a couple of examples already if you actually read my earlier posts.

    Paul tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
    Peter quotes Joel in Acts 2 which describes the Day of YH'H.

    None of us have been tried with fire.
    Some don't even want to go without food/drink for one day!

    Jubilees has helped me understand more about the Feasts and thus has helped me understand the Feasts as they will be in the future. End time events are written in Enoch and Jubilees and the Feasts have everything to do with those events.
    The calendar in Enoch is brilliant and shows the intelligent design of our solar system. There is more as the Ruach thinks I am able to digest I'm sure of it.

    I'd like to understand more. It's not a salvation issue wanting to know more. When I get an insight that expands my understanding, it's great!

    You are missing out that's all I can say.

    I'm just going to say study Paul with an open mind and THEN branch out. Anything that disagrees with apostolic doctrine is not of Him, but of Satan.

    It doesn't bother me that the apostles and/or Yehoshua might have quoted from the pseudopigraphic literature, as they knew what was inspired and what was not. They, alone, were guaranteed infallibility (John 14:26). We know that what we have is Scripture because it was the unanimous witness of those who knew them best (the church fathers) who can guarantee to us that they did, indeed, receive the New Testament writings from the apostles.

    Therefore, anything that disagrees with that canon or rule is to be rejected. It is the only objective measurement we have of doctrine. I'm not saying that Yahweh can't say more, I'm just saying I doubt He would give His apostles Scriptural infallibility and then contradict them. That doesn't follow.

    DR,

    I'm not sure what the problem is with you concerning the books of Enoch and Jubilees.
    How do they contradict scripture either OT or NT?

    I doubt you have read either.

    If you are satisfied with relying on mortals who might or might not be saved to tell you what is inspired or not, God help you.
    It's the Holy Ruach which guides us into all truth.

    John 16:3
    “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

    There you go.
    That is exactly what the Spirit is doing with me.
    John wrote this before the other books of the NT were written, of course, so ALL Truth has to come from sources other than the NT-OT, Enoch, Jubilees-even other writings that Lev dismissed like Ezra, Maccabees, Baruch, etc. could have truth in them (I know Maccabees has some).

    The NT is the testimony of the Messiah which if you read the other lit you will see it is just the fulfillment of what has been written before only with commentary from that time period (first century) and Paul writing letters to believers telling them to shape up which, of course is very helpful, but not TRUTH per se, more like a witness to the Truth.

    Even the Beasts in Revelation have been written about before Revelation. There is redundancy in the NT writings. They are a witness.



    The Holy Spirit will guide.

    Alright. Well, since the Holy Spirit is in you, I trust you will tell us which books are inspired and not inspired, Cindy. I trust you are an infallible witness who can figure this out for us. After all, you "know" I've not read Jubilees or Enoch and "know" I don't "understand" the issues that surrounded the canonization of the Bible. And since I'm man and am "relying on mortals" to know what's inspired or not (are you immortal?), I should follow you, instead of those who were eye witnesses to the apostles and knew precisely which books were penned by them.

    I should also become a Mormon again since Joseph Smith "knew", like you, the Bible "is corrupted", as you both say. I mean, forget that people such as Lev have already outlined some of the problems with Jubilees -- you choose to believe it anyway. And forget textual scholarship proves you wrong on the New Testament -- you have decided to side with an atheist and rely on your own "revelations" of what is right and wrong.

    I'm sure you know by now I'm being intentionally absurd, but I believe God gives us a brain for a reason. And I'm fairly certain, based on textual evidence, that while Enoch and Jubilees may have SOME inspiration, there's something in them you really want to believe. And so my question: what is in them that you believe that isn't made clear in the Bible? Let's compare THAT to the Word.

    DR,

    Feigning personal attack and injury does not change the nature of the discussion.

    Was I right in that you have not read either Enoch or Jubilees?
    You don't say.

    You instead mock me being "infallible" when actually I'm telling the truth of the matter.
    If you don't want to accept my witness than don't.

    You need a right heart in order to "hear" the truth whether it comes from me or someone else.
    Unless you are grounded in Faith and Torah any whiff of doctrine will lead you astray.
    Paul said it.

    Eph 4:13
    till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
    Eph 4:14
    that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
    Eph 4:15
    but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ--

    "May grow up" in all things.

    I will be glad to share what insight I have been given.
    Although, I am not sure how to do it.
    I just have it written on Pdf files for my own records.
    I do not know how to get them over here from my hard drive.
    I can give you the highlights, but most times when I do people want MOUNTAINS of references of which I have given and so just placed them all in files.

    Do these insights change my faith?
    Yes, they increase it exponentially!

    But, be prepared to be an outsider.
    Be prepared to have people make fun of you.
    You will know it when you are sincere in your understanding and others will not even give you the consideration of having a different view even if you have all the evidence in the world.
    There will be a hate you will see, even from family.
    Once you see this hate you will know you have been blessed with the Truth because the World will HATE YOU. Most have not experienced this hate.
    Most love the acceptance of family, friends, and forum followers more than the Son of Man.

    Matt 10:37
    He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.

    Tell me you are ready for this?

    Just post your beliefs from Enoch and Jubilees, what relevant verses from Enoch and Jubilees support them, then we can compare them back to the Word.

    THE TRUE BIRTH OF OUR MESSIAH AND LORD

    6th Month Visitation

    Luke 1:26-27
    And in the sixth month the Angel Gabriel was sent from
    God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth. To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name [was] Mary.
    Luke 1:31
    And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name יהושוע

    6th Month Visitation-Isaac

    Jubilees 16:12
    And in the middle of the sixth month (Elul)
    the Lord visited Sarah and did unto her
    as he had said, and she conceived.

    Star of Conception
    http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/1203.html
    “In September of 3 B.C., Jupiter came into conjunction with Regulus, the star of kingship, the brightest star in the constellation Leo the Lion. Leo was the constellation of kings, and it was associated with the Lion of Judah. Just a month earlier, Jupiter and Venus had almost seemed to touch each other in another close conjunction "in the east" “

    This is the sixth month of the Hebrew year when our Lord was conceived.
    Also, this DAY is the New Oil Pentecost mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls Temple documents.


    3 BCE
    New moon 1/4 moon Full moon 3/4 moon
    Jan 1 13:57 Jan 9 18:00
    Jan 17 00:31 Jan 23 16:24 Jan 31 07:22 n Feb 8 12:11
    Feb 15 11:00 T Feb 22 02:41 Mar 2 01:19 n Mar 10 02:21
    Mar 16 19:56 Mar 23 14:49 Mar 31 18:16 Apr 8 12:40
    Apr 15 03:48 Apr 22 05:01 Apr 30 09:11 May 7 19:52
    May 14 11:28 May 21 21:02 May 29 21:51 Jun 6 01:03
    Jun 12 20:07 Jun 20 14:12 Jun 28 08:43 Jul 5 05:31
    Jul 12 06:52 Jul 20 07:39 Jul 27 18:27 n Aug 3 10:42
    ELUL Aug 10 20:25 A Aug 19 00:35 Aug 26 03:41 n Sep 1 18:10-Sept 3-
    TISHRI Sep 9 12:44 Sep 17 16:23 Sep 24 12:57 Oct 1 05:15
    CHESVAN Oct 9 06:56 Oct 17 06:30 Oct 23 22:45 Oct 30 20:36
    KISLEV Nov 8 01:42 Nov 15 18:28 Nov 22 09:33 Nov 29 15:46
    TEVET Dec 7 19:43 Dec 15 04:10 Dec 21 21:49 Dec 29 13:06

    http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/phas e/phases-0099.html
    2 BCE

    SHEBAT Jan 6 11:53 Jan 13 12:06 Jan 20 11:40 p Jan 28 10:27
    ADAR Feb 5 01:29 A Feb 11 19:17 Feb 19 02:49 Feb 27 05:54
    ADAR II Mar 6 12:17 Mar 13 02:54 Mar 20 18:35 Mar 28 22:16
    NISAN Apr 4 20:43 Apr 11 11:57 Apr 19 10:18 Apr 27 11:01
    IYAR May 4 03:43 May 10 23:03 May 19 01:28 May 26 20:18
    SIVAN Jun 2 10:27 Jun 9 12:27 Jun 17 15:47 Jun 25 02:53

    http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/1203.html
    “Early in the evening of June 17, 2 B.C., the brightest planets in the sky, Jupiter and Venus, merged into a dazzling "star" near the western horizon, according to calculations of modern astronomers. In countries to the east of what was then the kingdom of Judea, observers could have seen the fused planets as a beacon in the direction of Jerusalem.
    Astrologers associated Jupiter with the birth of kings and Venus with fertility. The meeting of Jupiter and Venus took place in the constellation Leo the Lion, which the Old Testament of the Bible specifically associates with the Jewish people. And it happened near the brightest star in Leo, Regulus, most closely identified with kingship.

    There has not been a brighter, closer conjunction of Venus and Jupiter in Leo so near to Regulus in the 2,000 years since.”

    Birth of Isaac

    Jubilees 16:13
    And she bore a son in the third month, in
    the middle of the month, at the time of which
    the Lord had spoken to Abraham, on the
    festival of the first-fruits of the harvest,
    Isaac was born.

    In the Dead Sea Scroll and Book of Jubilees Forst-Fruits/New Grain Pentecost is celebrated in the middle of the third month (full moon).

    Book of Jubilees
    XV. And in the fifth year of the †fourth† 1 week of this jubilee, in the third month, in the middle of the month, 2 Abram celebrated the feast of the first-fruits 3 of the grain harvest. 2. And he offered new offerings on the altar, the first-fruits of the produce, unto the Lord, an heifer and a goat and a sheep on the altar as a burnt sacrifice unto the Lord; their fruit-offerings and their drink-offerings he offered upon the altar with frankincense. 4 3. And the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him: "I am God Almighty; approve thyself before Me and be thou perfect. 4. And I will make My covenant between Me and thee, and I will multiply thee exceedingly."

    June 17, 2 BCE is Sivan 15, 2 BCE

    Our Lord and Messiah was born in the Middle of Sivan same day as Isaac.
    Feast of First Fruits according to Jubilees
    New Grain Pentecost according to DSS
    Full Moon of Sivan

    Isaac was a type of Messiah in many many ways.
    That is why our Lord said....

    John 8:56
    Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.

    Psalm 81:3
    Blow the trumpet at the time of the New Moon, At the full moon, on our solemn feast day.

    Incidentally this same day is Exodus 24.
    The sealing of the Covenant with blood.

    Exd 24:1
    NOW He said to Moses, "Come up to the LORD, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and worship from afar.
    Exd 24:2
    "And Moses alone shall come near the LORD, but they shall not come near; nor shall the people go up with him."
    Exd 24:3
    So Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD and all the judgments. And all the people answered with one voice and said, "All the words which the LORD has said we will do."
    Exd 24:4
    And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD. And he rose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
    Exd 24:5
    Then he sent young men of the children of Israel, who offered burnt offerings and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen to the LORD.
    Exd 24:6
    And Moses took HALF the blood and put it in basins, and half the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
    Exd 24:7
    Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, "All that the LORD has said we will do, and be obedient."
    Exd 24:8
    And Moses took the blood, sprinkled it on the people, and said, "This is the blood of the covenant which the LORD has made with you according to all these words."

    Also,

    Hbr 9:20 saying, "This [is] the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you."
    Hbr 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
    Hbr 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than [that of] Abel.
    Hbr 13:20 Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

    The covenant of the Halves was cut in the Middle of Sivan

    Jubilees 14:1-20
    1.“After these things, in the fourth year of this week, on the new moon of the third month, the word of the Lord came to Abram in a dream
    ......

    10. And he took all these in the middle of the month; and he dwelt at the oak of Mamre, which is near Hebron. 4 11. And he built there an altar, and sacrificed all these; and he poured their blood upon the altar, and divided them in the midst, and laid them over against each other; but the birds divided he not. 12. And birds came down upon the pieces, and Abram drove them away, and did not suffer the birds to touch them. 5 13. And it came to pass, when the sun had set, that an ecstasy fell upon Abram, and lo! an horror of great darkness fell upon him, and it was said unto Abram: "Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land (that is) not theirs, and they will bring them into bondage, and afflict them four hundred years. 1 14. And the nation also to whom they will be in bondage shall I judge, and after that they will come forth thence with much substance. 15. And thou wilt go to thy fathers in peace, and be buried in a good old age. 16. But in the fourth generation 2 they will return hither; for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full." 3 17. And he awoke from his sleep, and he arose, and the sun had set; and there was a flame, and behold! a furnace was smoking, and a flame of fire passed between the pieces. 18. And on that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying: "To thy seed will I give this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates,

    There is more.
    Too much all at once is overwhelming I think.

    So, to just recap what I have written.
    With the book of Jubilees guided by the Holy Ruach
    Isaac and our Lord and Savior had identical birth dates.
    Both births were covenants.
    As well as their deaths (more on that later).
    The Feast of First Fruits celebrates both their births.
    The covenant of Halves and the Sinai covenant sealed on the birth dates of Isaac and YH'sha.

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