Yah'shua also spoke about judgment for sin and of hell and if you recall that He was and is the Malak (Angel) of Yahweh's Presence who gave the Torah to Israel, then you have a greater perspective of the relationship between justice and love in the New Covenant. No unclean thing can dwell in the presence of Yahweh and equally grace cannot be explouted indefinitely. When Yah'shua forgave the woman who committed adultery it was on condition that she did not repeat this serious offense.

Sending a disobedient child up to his room, expelling a persistently unrepentant sinner from the local assembly, and cutting off the branches of the tree who would not receive Messiah are not so much punative but corrective measures. They are still loving even if there are believers who do such things for punitive reasons (i.e. revenge). I can think of many situations in my own ministry where, had we not expelled persistently unrepentant members, that like a rotten apple they would have spoiled the rest of the basket-load. I view Paul as being totally in harmony with the Saviour's own sentiments, especially when it comes to sexual immorality. If there were a member in your congregation who had committed adultery, and who refused to repent, and continued making advances on married women, even after counseling, would you not throw him out? We are not called to kill vipers but neither are we to embrace them in our bosom. Sometimes Yahweh has to take people to the end of themselves outside the fellowship and whether they repent or not will be a function of their pride or humility.

The problem area is when people are thrown out of congregations unjustly, something which sadly happens all too often. I think we may, on occasion, confuse the two. I have experienced this myself and know how devastating it can be but then I was on am inevitable collision course as this denomination regarded itself as immune to error and would not accept contrary views or a discussion of them because the 'truth' had already been pronounced by human fiat (as in Mormonism, Catholicism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventism and many others).

Salvation comes in many forms and part of it is knocking down the walls of pride and rebellion. The trick is to let Yahweh do the knocking down but in the meantime, where absolutely necessary, to protect the flock. How we handle this will be a measure of our spiritual maturity.duced by known kosher artists who I know are Ruach-filled, I tend to touch almost nothing that's marketed these days. I wonder just what they put in the movies too........

I must admit i have gotten more than i was expecting and its my desire to more about the word of yahweh,i know that i still want to know more about the word,and i believe this is the right place,shalom.

Lev/Christopher said:

Yah'shua also spoke about judgment for sin and of hell and if you recall that He was and is the Malak (Angel) of Yahweh's Presence who gave the Torah to Israel, then you have a greater perspective of the relationship between justice and love in the New Covenant. No unclean thing can dwell in the presence of Yahweh and equally grace cannot be explouted indefinitely. When Yah'shua forgave the woman who committed adultery it was on condition that she did not repeat this serious offense.

Sending a disobedient child up to his room, expelling a persistently unrepentant sinner from the local assembly, and cutting off the branches of the tree who would not receive Messiah are not so much punative but corrective measures. They are still loving even if there are believers who do such things for punitive reasons (i.e. revenge). I can think of many situations in my own ministry where, had we not expelled persistently unrepentant members, that like a rotten apple they would have spoiled the rest of the basket-load. I view Paul as being totally in harmony with the Saviour's own sentiments, especially when it comes to sexual immorality. If there were a member in your congregation who had committed adultery, and who refused to repent, and continued making advances on married women, even after counseling, would you not throw him out? We are not called to kill vipers but neither are we to embrace them in our bosom. Sometimes Yahweh has to take people to the end of themselves outside the fellowship and whether they repent or not will be a function of their pride or humility.

The problem area is when people are thrown out of congregations unjustly, something which sadly happens all too often. I think we may, on occasion, confuse the two. I have experienced this myself and know how devastating it can be but then I was on am inevitable collision course as this denomination regarded itself as immune to error and would not accept contrary views or a discussion of them because the 'truth' had already been pronounced by human fiat (as in Mormonism, Catholicism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventism and many others).

Salvation comes in many forms and part of it is knocking down the walls of pride and rebellion. The trick is to let Yahweh do the knocking down but in the meantime, where absolutely necessary, to protect the flock. How we handle this will be a measure of our spiritual maturity.