Objects - NCCG.ORG Ning Network Archive 2008-10

Reply by Kathleen Megan Dominica Malligan on June 23, 2009 at 5:55am

I say most assuredly yes, I have counted 18 demons to one pack of card that have legal rights to be in your home and transfer under command in and out of your body and or household. "Originally created for Charles of France representing a mockery of the trinity. Also know as "Devils Bible' and "The Devils Picture Book" [Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated Dr Kathy Burns]. King is the enemy of God Queen is the virgin Mary called mother of harlots; Jack is the lustful libertine, Ten is the spirit of lawlessness, Joker is Lord Jesus Christ fool who is the offspring of a lustful Jack and the Queen Mother Mary. Every card is symbolic and symbols are not passive they invoke the spiritual power they represent. Other meanings of the four suits are the occult elements, cups of water are the hearts, swords for air is the spade, wands for fire is the clubs, pentacles for earth is the diamonds. Sexual connotations are th e 2 colors red is male and black is female; they represent a satanic trinity of king - father, queen - mother and jack -child. The four suits symbolize the male triad and female unit forming the arba-el or four god. The thirteen cards represent Luna months or menstruation in a year. they symbolize weeks and seasons and days per year. [all taken from Dr Kathy Burns book "Occult Symbols Illustrated" excellent book to buy just excellent] Not only are there many demons to having a pack of playing cards, but there can be curse of idolatry, curse of cursed thing in your home, the dishonor of the trinity and Lordship of Christ (Deutonomy 7:26; 1 John 2:15-17; Romans 12:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22; 2 Timothy 2:15; 1 Corinthians 10:21; 2 Corinthians 6:17-18). Uno card, I do not think so they are not associated with occult or witchcraft, in Christ Kath.

Reply by Kathleen Megan Dominica Malligan on June 23, 2009 at 5:58am

Kathleen Megan Dominica Malligan said:

I say most assuredly yes, I have counted 18 demons to one pack of card that have legal rights to be in your home and transfer under command in and out of your body and or household. "Originally created for Charles of France representing a mockery of the trinity. Also know as "Devils Bible' and "The Devils Picture Book" [Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated Dr Kathy Burns]. King is the enemy of God Queen is the virgin Mary called mother of harlots; Jack is the lustful libertine, Ten is the spirit of lawlessness, Joker is Lord Jesus Christ fool who is the offspring of a lustful Jack and the Queen Mother Mary. Every card is symbolic and symbols are not passive they invoke the spiritual power they represent. Other meanings of the four suits are the occult elements, cups of water are the hearts, swords for air is the spade, wands for fire is the clubs, pentacles for earth is the diamonds. Sexual connotations are th e 2 colors red is male and black is female; they represent a satanic trinity of king - father, queen - mother and jack -child. The four suits symbolize the male triad and female unit forming the arba-el or four god. The thirteen cards represent Luna months or menstruation in a year. they symbolize weeks and seasons and days per year. [all taken from Dr Kathy Burns book "Occult Symbols Illustrated" excellent book to buy just excellent] Not only are there many demons to having a pack of playing cards, but there can be curse of idolatry, curse of cursed thing in your home, the dishonor of the trinity and Lordship of Christ (Deutonomy 7:26; 1 John 2:15-17; Romans 12:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22; 2 Timothy 2:15; 1 Corinthians 10:21; 2 Corinthians 6:17-18). Uno card, I do not think so they are not associated with occult or witchcraft, in Christ Kath.

Reply by NewStart on June 23, 2009 at 10:23am

Thanks
When I was growing up the older folks used to say that cards were sinful but they could never explain why. They only associated them with gambling so I never saw it as wrong because I didn't use them to gamble. My husband purchased a pack about a month ago and we haven't opened them yet. They will be in the trash before the day is over!

Kathleen Megan Dominica Malligan said:

Kathleen Megan Dominica Malligan said:
I say most assuredly yes, I have counted 18 demons to one pack of card that have legal rights to be in your home and transfer under command in and out of your body and or household. "Originally created for Charles of France representing a mockery of the trinity. Also know as "Devils Bible' and "The Devils Picture Book" [Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated Dr Kathy Burns]. King is the enemy of God Queen is the virgin Mary called mother of harlots; Jack is the lustful libertine, Ten is the spirit of lawlessness, Joker is Lord Jesus Christ fool who is the offspring of a lustful Jack and the Queen Mother Mary. Every card is symbolic and symbols are not passive they invoke the spiritual power they represent. Other meanings of the four suits are the occult elements, cups of water are the hearts, swords for air is the spade, wands for fire is the clubs, pentacles for earth is the diamonds. Sexual connotations are th e 2 colors red is male and black is female; they represent a satanic trinity of king - father, queen - mother and jack -child. The four suits symbolize the male triad and female unit forming the arba-el or four god. The thirteen cards represent Luna months or menstruation in a year. they symbolize weeks and seasons and days per year. [all taken from Dr Kathy Burns book "Occult Symbols Illustrated" excellent book to buy just excellent] Not only are there many demons to having a pack of playing cards, but there can be curse of idolatry, curse of cursed thing in your home, the dishonor of the trinity and Lordship of Christ (Deutonomy 7:26; 1 John 2:15-17; Romans 12:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22; 2 Timothy 2:15; 1 Corinthians 10:21; 2 Corinthians 6:17-18). Uno card, I do not think so they are not associated with occult or witchcraft, in Christ Kath.

Reply by Joshua Theobald on August 3, 2009 at 2:30pm

Hi I'm new to this forum. I might also want to add a pretext that in a Judea Christian context that I come from the wrong side. Please take that into consideration per my following comments. In no way I am attempting to keep a simple deck of cards from being trashed nor do I wish "demons" to inhabit your house through a deck of cards. That being said I don't think cards or objects manufactured by a company come prepackaged with "demons". Tarot cards with which our current "playing" cards are modeled after also do not come prestocked with "demons", just as water placed in a bowl at church is not holy as it flows out of the tap. All objects have the potential to be inhabited by good or evil entites, but they require someone through "ritual" or "prayer" to imbue or invite these entites to possess such objects. It is also my experience that individuals are usually the carriers of these "demons" and that they act upon the inanimate objects from the individual. Rare is the case that an object is inhabited by a "demon" or "spirit". I also think that too much credit is given to "demons" and "satan", and that they are often used as scapegoats for our own inadequacies, short comings, and desires. It does not mean that they are absent from our lives, but that the roles they play are not near as glorious as our ability to undermine ourselves.

Thanks,
Joshua Theobald

Reply by DR on August 3, 2009 at 3:51pm

Joshua, I do not see it as much as the playing cards coming as pre-packaged with demons (I honestly don't know if they have Occult origins, although since they're associated with gambling, it is better to avoid "every form of evil" [1 Thess. 55:2]), as much as I see it as demons having a legal right to harass you for breaking Yahweh's commandments. The very name of Satan himself means "accuser". Part of this role is seen in Job 1-2 and in Zechariah 3 where he accuses the saints before Yahweh.

Regarding "cursed" objects, the Torah says to destroy anything "devoted to destruction" and that those who possess it likewise are "devoted to destruction" (Deuteronomy 7:26). This is in reference to idols, but, by extension, can also point to things that are equally blasphemous. In fact, we are told in that verse to detest them.

Hope this assists you.

Joshua Theobald said:

Hi I'm new to this forum. I might also want to add a pretext that in a Judea Christian context that I come from the wrong side. Please take that into consideration per my following comments. In no way I am attempting to keep a simple deck of cards from being trashed nor do I wish "demons" to inhabit your house through a deck of cards. That being said I don't think cards or objects manufactured by a company come prepackaged with "demons". Tarot cards with which our current "playing" cards are modeled after also do not come prestocked with "demons", just as water placed in a bowl at church is not holy as it flows out of the tap. All objects have the potential to be inhabited by good or evil entites, but they require someone through "ritual" or "prayer" to imbue or invite these entites to possess such objects. It is also my experience that individuals are usually the carriers of these "demons" and that they act upon the inanimate objects from the individual. Rare is the case that an object is inhabited by a "demon" or "spirit". I also think that too much credit is given to "demons" and "satan", and that they are often used as scapegoats for our own inadequacies, short comings, and desires. It does not mean that they are absent from our lives, but that the roles they play are not near as glorious as our ability to undermine ourselves.

Thanks,
Joshua Theobald

Reply by Joshua Theobald on August 3, 2009 at 9:04pm

Guns have only one purpose, destruction, and they have no "spiritual" ties. Are gun owners then devoted to destruction? What about our military or those defending innocent women and children. Do we detest these holders of destructive objects? There are many objects with no spiritual connotation that function in this manner, but we find "ethical" justifications to possess and utilize them regularly.
I don't share your connotation of card to gambling, does that change their destructive definition? Personally, I grew up and was fortunate to have a grandmother that loved to be involved my life. Me and my 3 sibling grew up playing games like crazy eights, rummy, bridge, sapdes, and cribbage. All of these games required a deck of cards to play, but never once did we ever have a connotation of gambling associated with them. My grandmother was deaf and it was one of the few things that we could all easily do together.
I am sort of defending my use of cards but in my experience intent is everything. If you buy cards to participate in addictive behaviors, and they will grow to become an object with power over you, is even wrong in most of the occult practices I had been involved in. In fact, those people that became entrenched in addictive behaviors were looked down upon as weak and were of no real use to the group I use to work with. These experiences are however occured over 8 years ago, and at the time I did not quite grip the gravity of being involved in such a group. I am not as of yet a follower of any "god", and I left my group as a test of will and strength, as at one point I considered the group an addictive behavior. Needless to say I succeeded.

Reply by DR on August 3, 2009 at 10:47pm

I certainly agree with your general assessment. Nuclear energy is a neutral force, but can be used for evil. I think guns can fall into the same category. Of course, I think in some things, its a matter of conscience. I wouldn't "forbid" face cards necessarily due to your experiences, as in some areas, I think its a matter of conscience, although I would also be cautious in holding on to something due to the fond memories we hold to it. That is the exact Scripture definition of an "idol". ;) Torah commands we put Yahweh foremost in our thoughts (Deuteronomy 11:13).

There are truths in many religions. John 1:9 says that Messiah's light enlightens everyone. I think this is why we are accountable for our sins, whether we have heard of Messiah or not. But I also believe if we seek Him with all our hearts, we shall find Him (Deuteronomy 4:29-30, Matthew 7:7). So I'm not surprised if other religions hold to some truths or contain some of that light, but I'm also aware that Satan can pose as an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:14) and distort the truth, since He is a liar from the beginning (John 8:44). And to be honest, how many people want to be deceived? Its my opinion he has to throw some good in with the bad, otherwise we won't swallow the bait.

Hope this helps.

Joshua Theobald said:

Guns have only one purpose, destruction, and they have no "spiritual" ties. Are gun owners then devoted to destruction? What about our military or those defending innocent women and children. Do we detest these holders of destructive objects? There are many objects with no spiritual connotation that function in this manner, but we find "ethical" justifications to possess and utilize them regularly.
I don't share your connotation of card to gambling, does that change their destructive definition? Personally, I grew up and was fortunate to have a grandmother that loved to be involved my life. Me and my 3 sibling grew up playing games like crazy eights, rummy, bridge, sapdes, and cribbage. All of these games required a deck of cards to play, but never once did we ever have a connotation of gambling associated with them. My grandmother was deaf and it was one of the few things that we could all easily do together.
I am sort of defending my use of cards but in my experience intent is everything. If you buy cards to participate in addictive behaviors, and they will grow to become an object with power over you, is even wrong in most of the occult practices I had been involved in. In fact, those people that became entrenched in addictive behaviors were looked down upon as weak and were of no real use to the group I use to work with. These experiences are however occured over 8 years ago, and at the time I did not quite grip the gravity of being involved in such a group. I am not as of yet a follower of any "god", and I left my group as a test of will and strength, as at one point I considered the group an addictive behavior. Needless to say I succeeded.

Reply by Joshua Theobald on August 4, 2009 at 4:56pm

I wasn't bringing up my memories of cards to make it an idol, I was more trying to show that intent an personal expeience have more to do with how an individual handles an object than what its intended manufactured purpose. Yes I get that many people are addicted to gambling and lots of other things, but this is a choice they have made. Its not the cards that made them into gamblers, they made themselves into gamblers.
Second point, I'd like to make involves the proximity of "cursed objects". If you abide totally in god, no cursed object holds any power over you, because "god" is in control. I am not suggesting you test your god by wandering around "cursed" objects, but neither should you be afraid or intimidated by one if you should encounter it while doing "god's" work. If you should encounter an object like this why then don't you don gods armor and destroy the "curse" upon such an object. Personally, someone fully grounded in "god" should be able to identify and remove a cursed object as soon as it comes in to the individuals proximity. A few utterances should suffice, however, I have never met a judea christian or muslim that grounded in thier belief.

I'm sure this is enough to chew on for now so I will end early. I look forward to your comments and replies.

Thanks,
Joshua Theobald

Reply by Gilbert Burgess on January 2, 2010 at 8:53pm

Joshua! I totally agree with you. We like to blame things on the devil and say that certain people are possessed when we really don't know. Yes, I believe they are just trying to cover up for which they lack. If that's the case with cards then we need to evaluate everything else that we buy too! I also understood where the other writer was coming from, but I agree more with you. Thanks for the post!

Joshua Theobald said:

Hi I'm new to this forum. I might also want to add a pretext that in a Judea Christian context that I come from the wrong side. Please take that into consideration per my following comments. In no way I am attempting to keep a simple deck of cards from being trashed nor do I wish "demons" to inhabit your house through a deck of cards. That being said I don't think cards or objects manufactured by a company come prepackaged with "demons". Tarot cards with which our current "playing" cards are modeled after also do not come prestocked with "demons", just as water placed in a bowl at church is not holy as it flows out of the tap. All objects have the potential to be inhabited by good or evil entites, but they require someone through "ritual" or "prayer" to imbue or invite these entites to possess such objects. It is also my experience that individuals are usually the carriers of these "demons" and that they act upon the inanimate objects from the individual. Rare is the case that an object is inhabited by a "demon" or "spirit". I also think that too much credit is given to "demons" and "satan", and that they are often used as scapegoats for our own inadequacies, short comings, and desires. It does not mean that they are absent from our lives, but that the roles they play are not near as glorious as our ability to undermine ourselves.

Thanks,
Joshua Theobald

Reply by Lev/Christopher on February 14, 2010 at 1:10am

Cards are not themselves demonic - they are jut pieces of cardboard - but what they represent may be. In their original iconography they are glorifying Satan (the KIng) and his chief consort (the Queen - probably Ishtar) and mocking Christ (the Joker). I would view this issue in two ways:

1. If the cards have been specifically dedicated, then they are going to produce spiritual trouble for the owner of the pack and those who play with them. One simple way to deal with that is to bless everything that comes into your household to break any such curse. Are they cursed en masse in production? I have no idea. I *do* know that a great deal, if not most, mass disibuted rock music *is* dedicated to satan because I know of people involved in this in the recording studios. Music is a different kettle of fish, though, and more complex.

2. Those who purchase cards in ignorance, not knowing what they in fact represent, cannot be held accountable. But once you know what they are, and that they are mocking the Saviour, you should get rid of them whether they have been cursed or not. That's just plain common sense. If you had a pack of cards which represented the Kings as bloodthirsty fascist dictators like Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot you'd not keep or use them, would you?

The argument is used that it is possible to overreact and see demons under every bed. This is true. But I think there is a danger of being too casual about this as well. Like it or not, we ARE called to be a set-apart (holy) people, giving the enemy no legal grounds in our lives,and it is a fact that *someone* will think we are "fanatics" or "extremists" no matter what we do or say, even in just claiming to be a Christian/Messianic. So what we decide about this and other related matters should never be based on others' opinions of us either.

Are cards harmless? Maybe, but I doubt it. In this I take DR's position, more or less. Frankly, I don't want anything that glorifies the enemy of my soul in my possession, and if in doubt, I am going to take the conservative position.

Reply by DR on February 14, 2010 at 1:30am

No offense, Lev, but where do you get King = Satan, Joker = Christ? I've never heard of that.

Reply by Lev/Christopher on February 14, 2010 at 1:39am

Regular playing cards are not as innocent as some people would like to believe. I believe that they are used by Satan to seduce people into other activities. I also believe that they will cause a Christian to lose his love for Jesus and his desire to live for Him. Some of the most common places you will find a deck of cards (besides our homes) will be with prostitutes, gamblers, thieves, murderers, in taverns, brothels, prisons, insane asylums, gambling dens, etc., but never at a prayer meeting. Just recently I ran across an article by J.D. Carlson dealing with this subject, and I am going to share it with you.

SHOULD CHRISTIAN PEOPLE PLAY CARDS?
J.D. Carlson

I am giving this message on card playing because I have been asked by several people to deal with this topic. For millions of people the card game has a strong and a strange fascination. Where ever you go you see people playing cards. On my missionary journey, as I fly, I often see people playing cards by the hour.

I would remind you today that cards have always been looked upon with suspicion by good and godly people. My mother felt so bad when my dad, who was a wonderful man, said he saw no harm in card playing and introduced it to our home. My father said he saw no harm at all in card playing.

People ask me, "What really is the difference between playing a game of checkers and a game of cards?" Well, there is an ocean of difference between the two games and I will endeavor to show you why.

The Church in days gone by took its stand against the card game; ministers preached against it and big bonfires were built as people burned their playing cards.

Dr. Talmadge, as great a minister as ever served the Presbyterian denomination, said he would rather have his children play with a nest of rattlesnakes than with a deck of cards. Of course this was years ago. Today and for many years the Church and the pulpit have been silent in speaking against card playing.

This is interesting! The first deck of cards was invented by King Charles of France in the year 1392. King Charles was an insane man, by the way.

Now you perhaps have never heard this - so notice carefully what I am going to say. A deck of cards used to be called, "The Devil's Bible" and in the Seventeenth Century it was called, "The Devil's Picture Book". This is very important for us to know. Each card in the deck has a special meaning. Men who know tell me this is true, the cards have a secret language. Here is what I mean.

The KING card represents the Prince of Darkness - The Devil

The 10 SPOT speaks of the spirit of lawlessness. It speaks in opposition to the moral law as found in the Ten Commandments in the Bible.

Then the CLUB card represents violence and murder.

The JACK speaks of the loose living man, the lustful man, the licentious individual who only lives to satisfy his lower nature.

The QUEEN card represents Mary - the mother of our Lord. In the language of the cards, however, Mary is represented as an impure, dissolute, immoral woman.

There is the JOKER. It represents Jesus Christ.

But, also, the climax of all that is diabolical in connection with the language of cards is this: Jesus Christ, the joker, is said to be the child, the offspring, of the licentious Jack and the Queen. I wish I didn't have to tell this. It is so vile, so dreadful in its implication, that every man and woman who loves and adores the Saviour who died to redeem us with His own blood must cry out in protest against such blasphemy.

So every card in the deck has a secret meaning, and all alike are teaching opposition to God and His sacred Word. After what has been said about the Jack, the Queen, and the Joker, there is no need of further exposure of the card language.

Let me ask you a question: "Why don't people when they play cards first ask God to bless their card game?" Can you do that? Of course you cannot. Well, the Bible said, "Whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him" (Colossians 3:17)

Remember that nine-tenths of all gambling is done with cards. Also, remember that nine-tenths of those who gamble today learned to play cards at home.

No Christian should play cards. Surely no Sunday School teacher should play cards. The Bible said, "Touch not the unclean thing" (II Corinthians 6:17) As far as I am concerned I would not allow the "Dirty Deck" to desecrate my Christian home and tarnish my testimony.

http://www.eaec.org/bibleanswers/playing_cards.htm

DR said:

No offense, Lev, but where do you get King = Satan, Joker = Christ? I've never heard of that.