Why I can not accept the Talmud/Oral Torah and/or Kabbalah - NCCG.ORG Ning Network Archive 2008-10

Brethren, this is taken from another group, of which I was invited to by a member there, and which I will not personally reveal the names of either the group or the person unless I am booted from that group. But I wanted to post this so that the knowledge is not lost.

Look, if I went and studied every commentary and other work that men makes, then I could prove whatever they are wanting me to believe in. If I read all the works of Martin Luther, I could see and understand where he was coming from and understand his anti-Semitic teachings, because if I use his works to interpret Scripture, I come out with a Lutheran view of Scripture. If I used Calvin's works to interpret Scripture, I would come away with a Calvinistic point of view. If I use the Talmud to interpret Scripture for me, then I come away with a Jewish theological view point. But if the Jewish Theological view point was correct, then why did Yeshua come at all?

As some here have pointed out, some of the talmud is in error of Torah. if it is in error, then why follow any of it? I am sure Luther's and Calvin's works have some good stuff in them, but do I really trust men, who were not inspired, who taught false doctrines that went against Scripture for any Scriptural basis? The answer is no.

Theology is the study of God. It is a Greek term coming from Theos - God - and the suffix -ology which comes from Logos. This term is not used in Scripture at all, so why should we be using it? Theos was the title for all of the Greek gods and goddesses, so by saying you are studying theology, you are saying you are studying false gods. There is only one and His name is YHVH.

When I was studying with a Sephardi Rabbi, I saw pictures of centuries old Synagogues, and one of those Synagogues had a Zodiac chart with the symbols on the floor of the Synagogue. Forgive me, I do not remember which one it was. I have not studied Judaism and the Talmud since 2002. When were these things introduced into Judaism? During the Babylonian captivity. So before the time of Yeshua, we already see false teachings, doctrines, and false elohim already being introduced into the Jewish religion. The Talmud was not codefied until after the time of Yeshua. In it are the teachings of Rabbi's and Rabbinical halacha. How do we know that the sages that the Talmud refers to that were before the Talmud as codefied actually said what the Talmud says they did? We do not. The modern Rabbi's teach that Hillel or Shammai, or any of the others that came before the Talmud was codified, said what they said based on the what someone who came after Yeshua claim that they said. We do not have the original writings because it was Oral Torah. So you have to take the Rabbi's word that the sages actually said that.

So if you say that no ruling post Sanhedrin can be trusted, then how can you trust the Talmud at all? And are you going to say that the Sanhedrin, which ruled Yeshua a false Messiah figure and said He blasphemed, is a trusted source? The Sanhedrin in the time of Yeshua was actually stacked with Sadducee's, or as the modern Pharisee's like to say, Kararites. So you have Modern Pharisee's claiming to follow the rulings of the Sanhedrin that was a majority Sadducee and pronounced the death sentence on Yeshua. That is like saying that we should use the Biblia Hebraica version of the Tanach produced by Rudolph Kittle, who was both an anti-Semite and the father of Gerhard Kittle, the Christian voice of the Nazi's.

I will not accept carte blanche the words of someone who said that they were qoting a sage that did not live when those sages lived and was not quoting from something written but from the stories Rabbi's had told down through the centuries. The only way I want to see Scripture is how Scripture says to see it, and not through the biases and doctrines of someone else. Give me Scripture or give me death. There are far too many leaps of faith that one must take to take the Talmud as completely right, and knowing that there are things it teaches that goes against Scripture, then you can not take anything at all from it. If I gave you an orange that had a little mold on it, would you east around the mold? Of course you would not.

How do we know that any of the halacha that is ascribed to Moses in the Talmud actually came from Moses? How do we know that anything that is ascribed to any of the sages that came before the first century actually are what they said and taught without any change? We do not. I have been criticized because I do not remember every piece of Talmud teaching that I received 7+ years ago. And if I remember something, but it is not accurate, if nothing was written down to correct me, then how would anyone know if I got it wrong or not? They would not. So this is why I can not and will not support the Talmud aka Oral Torah.

Note this about Kabbalah: "Kabbalah (Hebrew: קַבָּלָה‎, lit. "receiving") is a discipline and school of thought concerned with the mystical aspect of Judaism. It is a set of esoteric teachings that is meant to explain the relationship between an infinite, eternal and essentially unknowable Creator with the finite and mortal universe of His creation. In solving this paradox, Kabbalah seeks to define the nature of the universe and the human being, the nature and purpose of existence, and various other ontological questions. It also presents methods to aid understanding of these concepts and to thereby attain spiritual realization. Kabbalah originally developed entirely within the milieu of Jewish thought and constantly uses classical Jewish sources to explain and demonstrate its esoteric teachings. These teachings are thus held by kabbalists to define the inner meaning of both the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) and traditional rabbinic literature, as well as to explain the significance of Jewish religious observances.

According to the Zohar, considered the main foundational text for kabbalistic thought ("Kabbalah Iyunit"-Contemplative Kabbalah, as opposed to "Kabbalah Maasit"-Practical Kabbalah[2]), Torah study uses four levels of interpretation (exegesis) of its text.[3] [4] Their initial letters spell "PaRDeS" ("Orchard"):

* Peshat (lit. "simple"): the direct interpretations of meaning.
* Remez (lit. "hint[s]"): the allegoric meanings (through allusion).
* Derash (from Heb. darash: "inquire" or "seek"): midrashic (Rabbinic) meanings, often with imaginative comparisons with similar words or verses.
* Sod (lit. "secret" or "mystery"): the inner, esoteric (metaphysical) meanings, expressed in kabbalah.

Kabbalah is considered, by its followers, as a necessary part of the study of Torah – the study of Torah (the "Teachings" of God, in the Tanach and Rabbinic literature) being an inherent duty of observant Jews.[5] Kabbalah teaches doctrines that are accepted by some Jews as the true meaning of Judaism while other Jews have rejected these doctrines as heretical and antithetical to Judaism. After the Medieval Kabbalah, and especially after its 16th Century development and synthesis, Kabbalah replaced "Hakira" (Jewish philosophy) as the mainstream traditional Jewish theology, both in scholarly circles and in the popular imagination. With the arrival of modernity, through the influence of Haskalah, this has changed among non-Orthodox Jewish denominations, though its 20th Century academic study and cross-denominational spiritual applications (especially through Neo-Hasidism), has reawakened a following beyond Orthodoxy.

The origins of the actual term Kabbalah are unknown and disputed to belong either to Jewish philosopher Solomon ibn Gabirol (1021–1058) or else to the 13th century CE Spanish Kabbalist Bahya ben Asher. While other terms have been used in many religious documents from the 2nd century CE up to the present day, the term "Kabbalah" has become the main descriptive of Jewish esoteric knowledge and practices. The Kabbalistic literature, which served as the basis for the development of Kabbalistic thought, divides between early works from the 1st-2nd centuries CE (such as the Heichalot texts and the earliest existant book on Jewish esotericism "Sefer Yetzirah"); Medieval works around the 13th century CE (of which the main book is the Zohar); and early-modern developments, especially 16th century Safed (Cordoveran and Lurianic Kabbalah) and 18th century Eastern Europe (Hasidism and Lithuanian Jewish Orthodox interpretations).

According to Kabbalistic tradition, knowledge was transmitted orally by the Patriarchs, prophets, and sages (Hakhamim in Hebrew), eventually to be "interwoven" into Jewish religious writings and culture. According to this tradition, Kabbalah was, in around the 10th century BCE, an open knowledge practiced by over a million people in ancient Israel,[6] although there is little objective historical evidence to support this thesis."

There is no proof of Kabbalah being from before the 11th century. It is a tradition and those that hold to it claim you can not fully understand Scripture or Rabbinical teachings - Talmud - without it. Sure it claims that by tradition to be before the time of Yeshua, but once again, nothing was written down, and so there is no proof and you have to take someone's word who took someones work who took someone's word on it all the ay back to the 11th or 13th centuries. Now, what is the definition of esoteric? Merriam-Webster defines esoteric as: designed for or understood only by the specially initiated. That sounds like the Mason's, and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and other secret societies. Where in Scripture is this even encouraged? It is not, but esoteric studies, of which witchcraft is, is forbidden in Scripture.

There is in a nutshell why I cannot accept anything from the Talmud/Oral Torah and/or the Kabbalah. I am sure that either A***** and/or others will try to nit pick all of this apart and to justify why they submit to them, or else I will be sent packing from this site. For this reason, I will post this on another site(s) to make sure that this knowledge is not lost.

Scott

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