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    Calculating the Festivals Calendar 2009 - Discussion

    Posted by Lev/Christopher on January 30, 2009 at 12:32am
    in Forum

    Since people are asking me for the feast days for 2009 so that they can make plans for visiting this spring I figured we should make an early start this year doing the calculations. I have to honestly say it has been a nightmare figuring all of this out over the years though I think we are finally "getting there". Before I solicit counsel here I do want to say that we at MLT we are committed to the following positions and so don't want to argue these out here now:

    1. Nisan/Aviv 1 & Rosh Chodesh beginning at the conjunction of the New Moon (not crescent or aviv barley) - see Rosh Chodesh - Yahweh's Gift of the New Moon - we believe that this commences this year on the evening of 25 March (up until the River Jordan) and 26 March (east of the Jordan).

    2. Chag haMatzah begins the day after Pesach and Yom haBikkurim the day after Chag haMatazah (whilst recognising that Pesach is in a sense a part of Chag haMatzah too);

    In these two matters we follow the YATI position.

    QUESTION 1 - The problem area is in the duration of Chag haMatzah. Is it 6 days (Dt.16:8) or 7 days (Dt.16:3; Ex.12:15; Ex.23:15) long? How do we harmonise these passages? Is Pesach being included in the 7 day reackoning.

    QUESTION 2 - In looking at the YATI calendar I can't get the days to add up - have they made a mistake?

    2009 Day

    Aviv-Nisan Moadim/Feasts

    Aviv 1/March 25 Rosh Chodesh Aviv (sundown)

    Aviv 14/April 8 Pesach/Passover (sundown)

    Aviv 15/April 9 Chag Matzoth/Unleavened Bread (sundown Full Moon)

    Aviv 16/April 10 Bikkurim/Firstfruits Omer Count Begins

    Aviv 21/April 14 Last Day Chag Matzoth/Unleavened Bread (sundown)

    Sivan (3rd month)/May 28 Day 6 Shavuot/Feast of Weeks (sundown)

    Ethanim-Tishri Moadim/Feasts

    Tishri 1/Sept. 18 Yom Teruah/Trumpets (sundown)

    Tishri 10/Sept. 27 Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement (sundown)

    Tishri 15/Oct. 2 Sukkot/Tabernacles-First Day (sundown Full Moon)

    Tishri 21/Oct. 8 Sukkot/Tabernacles Last Day (sundown)

    Tishri 22/Oct. 9 Shimeni Atzereth/Great 8th Day (sundown)

    Now unless I am missing something here, Aviv 15-21 is 7 days but 9-14 April is only 6 days. According to my calculations Nisan 21 is on 16 April, not 15 April.

    Solutions?


    Just in response to Question 1,

    Reading through Deuteronomy 16:1-8, it is strongly my impression that it is 7 days, and that Passover is being considered the first day...

    Deuteronomy 16:3 starts by saying "You shall eat no leavened bread with it [that is the Passover meal, which is being described in Deut 16:2]; seven days you shall eat unleavened bread with it, that is, the bread of affliction (for you came out of the land of Egypt in haste), that you may remember the day you came out of Egypt all the days of your life."

    Luke 22:7 also seems to confirm that Passover was considered the first day, as it is writte:
    " The came the Day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover must be killed."

    The impression for me, when I consider from Deuteronomy 16:3 that this is to remind us of Yah bringing us out of Egypt, of the salvation He has given us through us is that it is 7 days representing the complete walk of sanctification... 7 overcomings where each time we choose the way of Yah instead of the way of the flesh, and eating unleavened bread... The first day this bread accompanies the Lamb that was slain so the people may be spared, but they continue to eat of this bread for the full walk (or 7 days), showing we continue to grow in sanctification.
    Deuteronomy 16:8 seems to suggest to me that that in addition to this, that the 7th day was set appart as a sacred assembly, and that by using the wording of "six days... and on the seventh" is rather trying to say that this is a day set apart, a day that has special significance, than negating Chag haMatzah being 7 days.

    The picture that seems to come from this is 7 days that are telling in outline the story that all 7 festivals tell in detail (almost like when an artist first sketches the rough form on a canvas before painting all the detail)... a walk of complete spiritual sanctification, 7 days of partaking of unleavened bread (the sinless Word of Elohim), but taking special note of the beginning and the end ~ The Beginning where the Lamb was slain for our Salvation, and the End when we will also be gathered in Sacred Assembly with Him and before Him.

    Excellent points. I agree.

    Messianic Israel is not in the Holy Land and there is no Temple or Priesthhood to present the sheaves so Israel cannot possible obey the Torah. We are in the same position as Israel in the wilderness of Sîn. Just look at Lev.23:9 - are you fulfilling this requirement? Or anyone in Messianic Israel? No. Therefore everyone is, by your standard, disobedient. So what temple do you bring your barley to? And where is the Kohen Gadol? He is in heaven so you can't bring the barley to him either. The only temple available to us is the heavenly one currently which means the only presentation that can be made is spiritual, not literal. So what you have to ask yourself is: How did Israel celebrate Pesach in the wilderness with no barley (it was desert)? Add to this another question: if blood cannot be offered, neither can barley. And since blood sacrifices are no longer required according to the testimony of the Epistle to the Hebrews, then neither must barley, since all of this belongs to a Levitical system since superceeded by the greater Melchizedek one.

    As to the moon crescent, I proved this was erroneous (and is actually a Babylonian method, also used by the Muslims), in a recent sermon on Rosh Chodesh.

    You know, Jerry, before being so reactive and finger-pointing, you might find it actually helpful in developing inter-personal relationships to actually find out what other people believe and why instead of assuming the worst about them. It is possible to disagree in a spirit of Messiah, and is actually necessary, since Messianic Israel isn't "there" yet. There is a lot of spiritual immaturity in the Messianic movement which is giving it a bad name. So many of its adherents are little little school boys defending their turf. The truth will take care of itself and will still be around long after the bioys and girls have made asses of themself. So wind down, brother. People are not as devilish as you may think.

    I not sure if this applies, but I've been trying to figure out when the sunset of this age is and when the Sabbath of this age begins? If you know this will you please give me your insights? This is for everyone. Its not real important, just a question in my mind that I have not found a reliable answer for - yet.

    My understanding of this (if I have understood your question rightly) is that the Sabbath of this age will begin when Sukkot (Tabernacles) is fulfilled following Yah'shua return at Yom Teruah and His judgment of the world at Yom Kippur. I guess that either we are entering that sunset period now or that we will soon.

    Specifically (and we can know this for a certainty), the Sabbath will begin at sunset on the Great last Day of Shemini Atseret, the 8th day after Sukkot.

    This is exciting, I couldn't get your Shemini Atseret link to work though. Thank you, I'll look into it right now.

    A better translation of this passage is:

    "Now BEFORE (Strongs #4413, protos) the moed of Chag haMatazah...." (RSTNE)

    Protos can either mean "before" as in the first of a series of events, or "first" as in a number. The context reveals which is the correct usage and since Yah'shua died in the afternoon of preparation and was dead before Chag haMatzah it has to be the first meaning. Look at the second part of v.17 where it says, "Where will You that we prepare for You to eat the Pesach?" (RSTNE).

    Schonfield agrees with "on the day before" in his translation which then places thre crucifixion pm pesach, which agrees with John 13:1 & 19:24. The Talmud also confirms this (b.San.43a). See Mk.14:12; Lk.22:7; Jn.13:1. Look at Mt.27:62 too

    Yahs_Lamb said:
    Shalom Lev,
    Would you explain this scripture to me. Matthew 26 : 17-19

    Now on the first day of unleavened bread the disciples came to Yahshua, saying, Where wilt thou that we make ready for thee to eat the passover?

    18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Teacher saith, My time is at hand; I keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

    19 And the disciples did as Yahshua appointed them; and they made ready the passover

    We know Yahshua was the Passover Lamb, but how is it, that the Feast of Unleaven Bread came first ?
    This scripture is a little confusing. Thanks.

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