Critique and

    "A false prophecy, and false statements made about me ("nccg_concern")"



    July 5, 2006
    last updated July 29, 2006 (updates appear at the bottom).

    I wrote one web page about this already, but the suggestion of a concerned individual plus the availability of an actual FALSE PROPHECY regarding me and my activities have prompted me to update the page and make significant additions.

    The false prophecy about me and the false statements are documented in the right hand column below. They were published on the internet, in the groups.msn.com/nccgcybercommunity message board.
    [Derek's comments in red.]

    My Comments
    		 False information about me by Christopher Warren
    The prophecy shown to the right is 100% false. [As the one who had the prophecy, I don't think this has been sufficiently demonstrated.]

    Please note that this supposed prophecy is written in the present tense: IE: "They are writing", and these "profiles" are supposed to appear on the internet "in the near future".[We have reasonable belief to believe SOMEONE is writing profiles, although the details are confidential right now.]

    First of all, I will make this point clear.

    THERE IS NO MYSTERIOUS "THEY" WHO ARE INVESTIGATING NCCG FOR RESEARCH PURPOSES NCCG MIGHT CONSIDER HOSTILE. THERE IS JUST ME. [Inspite of the fact to know this requires omniscience on Concern's part -- how does he know no one else is researching us?]

    Additionally, as stated elsewhere on this web site, the investigation into NCCG and the creation of this web site has primarily been a "one-man operation". Me [But this does not preclude other people from researching -- Concern thinks too highly of himself.]

    If any other people existed who were doing this, I see no chance whatsoever that such a person would not have become aware of my research and contacted me so that we could compare source material and notes. [A number of reasons . . . they might wish to make this a "one man operation" just as much as Concern or they might find Concern's premises faulty.] My web site is well placed enough in the search engines that anyone seriously researching NCCG would be able to find my web site and get my contact information. My web site is even linked in one of the NCCG message  boards itself.

    Furthermore, the timing of the kinds of comments made about me indicate that my research and web site activities were the EXCLUSIVE trigger for this particular conspiracy/paranoia theory for NCCG leadership.

    This conspiracy theory has repeatedly referred to SPECIFIC activities done by ME  as being done by some nonspecific group of people, such as:
    • "THEY"
    • "The Enemy"
    • "Mr. Concern and his ilk"
    • "Mr. Concern and his allies"

    and even falsely named other individuals who supposedly are a part of a group of people who are cooperating with me to "persecute" NCCG such as:
    • Rick Ross,
    • a "satanist" named "Anna",
    • "Z",
    • a specific "believer who is venting".

    In other recent posts, I and people who are supposedly "employed" by me are the only people who have been specifically accused of:
    • hacking email
    • hacking instant messages

    and it has been insinuated that I also
    • listen to NCCG member's phone calls.

    The correct things which were stated about my research methods were that:

    • I read the NCCG message boards
    • I read the NCCG main web site

    It is important to note that this "prophecy" contains references about "They" that incorporate the identical accusations and observations which were made exclusively about ME in the past, such as the ones above. These past accusations reference MY OWN SPECIFIC ACTIVITIES as having been done by some mysterious plurality [It still doesn't mean the prophecy is about you -- note, Warren said "PROBABLY at Concern's site"].

    To summarize this point, the statement "They are writing detailed profiles on each and every member of MLT/NCCG based on what they can cull from the website, the posts here, sermons and email/IMs that they have been hacking into" can only refer to ME. Any other "They" is just a fantasy conspiracy theory unintentionally triggered by my research activities and my web site.[Ah, but then you are so fairly certain that its just you . . . as the man who had the dream, I can state within the dream content itself, I received no indication it was you.]

    The next points are:

    The material referenced by Christopher Warren as "email/IMs that they have been hacking into", is fantasy and does not exist.

    During the time frame that I was supposed to be writing these detailed profiles, and for a long while beforehand, I was not developing any material for this  nccg_concern web site. The person I live with did not note me spending significant amounts of time at my PC writing large documents (such as would be required for the writing of "detailed profiles"). My handwriting is too poor and slow to be able to do this kind of writing without a PC. [Well, if it helps, in my dream, it was written/typed on computer paper.]

    I am not in the process of writing detailed profiles about NCCG members, or even profiles about Christopher Warren himself, and have not been at any time.

    I also have no future plans to do so.

    Furthermore, I have a policy within my NCCG investigation of not specifying  much about the members themselves [aside from blurbing my last name on your "Chad" e-mail page and my full name on this page], with the exception of Christopher Warren. This is because NCCG's history suggests to me that the only permanent member of NCCG is, in fact, Christopher Warren himself [I've got pictures of my baptism -- and I've been hanging around for quite a few years so I guess that makes at least two "permanent" members.]. I do not wish to potentially hinder the recovery of any NCCG members who leave the group by allowing identifiable documentation of their cult involvement to effectively be archived (www.archive.org) on the internet.

    I have also not planned to identify any individuals by their roles within NCCG, such as "cult propagandist" [No, but you've possibly irreparably ruined my reputation by posting something referring to me as a "polygamist"].

    In summary, there is no "they" researching NCCG, it is just me, and this prophecy about my writing plans and activities, both present and future, is a  fantasy or "false prophecy" as it would be defined by the Bible. [But then again, we never said it was about your "future activities" -- it has yet to be fulfilled.]


    		 This is an excerpt from a post Christopher Warren made on nccgcybercommunity which contains a false prophecy about me.

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    Recommend  Message 1 of 1 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator  (Original Message) Sent: 6/28/2006 10:10 PM

    What The Enemy is Currently Doing

    The Nature of the Second Wave Revealed

    The following is by way of prophetic information revealed to us by Yahweh to prepare our people for what is coming.

    They are writing detailed profiles on each and every member of MLT/NCCG based on what they can cull from the website, the posts here, sermons and email/IMs that they have been hacking into. They are indeed going to a great deal of trouble to try and discredit such a tiny group (I wonder why? Answers available from Yahweh). They mean to publish a very detailed character profile of each and every one of us, moulded in the image they wish to create, twisting the information (and misinformation) in the usual way, with a view to destroying us. The result is, however, that they will be destroyed themselves. In a sentence: what they wish to happen to us, will happen to them, and our ministry will simply be strengthened and enlarged. Little do they realise that they are doing Yahweh's work. But as Yah'shua said, stumblings will come, but woe unto them that cause stumblings.

    So sometime in the near future - probably at Mr. Concern's site but also probably elsewhere too - they mean to extend their so-called "exposé" into what they claim to be minute detail character studies. Expect to find a very detailed profile of the existing leadership, and of the leaders to come with a lot of psycho-babble. The intent of these profiles will be defammatory, like the newspaper article, and not at all in the interests of truth. Expect to find very loaded terms and deliberately misleading labels like 'cult propagandist' applied to one of our people. The aim is to make us appear unstable, paraonoid, cultic, delusional - you name it, they will come up with it. In short, total character assassination.

    The statements made about the circumstances surrounding the translation of one of the pages of my web site into Swedish are false.

    This translation was done by a personal friend who did not receive compensation for the translation. [Note the word "seems" (its the second word in the post) and "expense" -- it SEEMS you went to great expense. Likewise, "expense" isn't neccessarily monetary. TIME can be considered an expense.] There was no expense involved with accomplishing this translation. The amount of "trouble" experienced by me regarding the completion of the translation was minimal.

    The claim that I initiated contact with the local newspaper in an effort to "stir them up", or for any other reason, is false.

    I do not have a background that is characterized by "slick propaganda, media hype and spin". [You do exercise "undue influence" (as you call it) by presenting the information in a way that makes us seem like hysterical religious schizoids -- this is demonstrated by putting your comments before the original source material -- that way, when people read our posts, they'll automatically read them through the filter you set up. Clever, eh?]

    When he references my "ilk", this has in other posts referred to Rick Ross and exit counseling professionals who are supposedly assisting my research in some way. This concept of ongoing help or an anti-NCCG team being formed between me and Rick Ross, or any other professional exit counselor, is fantasy. [But Ross allows you to use his forum as stomping grounds.]

    Christopher Warren makes statements in this post where he appears to endeavor to create the impression that he understands why I am researching NCCG, and concludes that I am demonstrating pathological behavior. In reality, Christopher Warren is very clearly unaware of the reasons I am researching NCCG, and spends a lot of time in this post describing my characteristics incorrectly and generally attacking me. [You started the attack, buddy -- this is an open war. You never came to us negotiating peace or at least an attempt to try to understand us, but put up a site with private information which could wreck lives. Even if Warren were flat out wrong on his attacks, I believe his responses to be human and understandable.]

    (Personal comment: reading the short "Repent." comment at the end of this post  cracks me up, as it directly follows all of the false statements and the loose threat stating that my time is coming to an end).
    		 This is a post made by Christopher Warren on nccgcybercommunity about me.

    Reply
    Recommend  Message 46 of 48 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 6/4/2006 9:16 PM
    It seems that Mr. Concern has not only gone to a great deal of trouble and expense to get his tabloid website translated into Swedish but has even been in contact with the local newspapers to stir them up. Why would a person go to such lengths? Just what are his motives? Why is he so concerned about a small, simple group of harmelss, peace-loving Christians who have good relations with the local community, don't pester people, and evangelise in a way so as not to bother anyone who does not want to know our beliefs? We respect the quiet, non-obtrusive way of life of our host country, we don't go knocking on doors or evangelising on the streets (though we do so in other countries where this is more common), and simply let people find us through the internet or through personal contact.  For Mr.Concern to go to all this trouble over such a few people who respect free speech, encourage dialogue and discussion between people of different beliefs, honour democracy and expect mutual accountability, is not normal behaviour - it is quite simply pathological behaviour. It may be normal to behave in such a whacky way in the United States but not here in Sweden which is a pluralistic society not accustomed to the kind of slick propaganda, media hype and spin that characterises the background of Mr.Concern and his ilk. To put it in succinctly, old Mr. "Cult" Concern has got a grudge of some sort and is just venting but in a way that is irresponsible and lacking accountability. He is too much of a coward to even say who he is, resorts to ad hominem personal attacks and generally behaves like a sulking little boy who has been sent to bed because he smashed up the crockery when told to eat up his dinner.
    One person who has recently been through the "cult deprogrammers" came and visited us and though he was very suspicious of us at first satisfied himself that we were not a cult as we fulfilled none of the criteria he had been taught. Doubtless others who have been subjected to similar indignities who visit us will arrive at the same conclusion. Meanwhile life continues normally here, people come and go as they want and as they always have done. for fellowship and praise.
    As for Mr.Concern I have only this to say to him now: Yah'shua says this to you - your time is coming to an end and you have taken this far enough.
    Repent.

    Christopher Warren has repeatedly claimed that I have engaged in criminal activities during my research. This is false. [But we have reason to believe you could be associating with criminals, whether you realize it or not.]

    He accuses me of hacking a particular NCCG member's Yahoo and Hotmail accounts in posts elsewhere as well as the one shown here. The supposed reason for my doing this was so that I could send the person email from his own email address. This is a false accusation, as I did not hack anyone's email accounts as is described. [I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.]

    The accusation made here and in another post that I am the individual who sent these emails to this person, which is effectively a separate accusation from the "hacking", is false. I did not send emails like the one Christopher Warren describes to any NCCG member.

    Additionally, I cannot identify a benefit that would have been achieved by doing this. Email sent this way would have been no more anonymous than if I had made a new Hotmail and/or Yahoo account and used that to send the mail.

    (Below three paragraphs edited July 6, 2006)

    I personally suspect that a concerned friend or family member sent this person the emails. I can't know whether or not the concerned friend or family member acquired this person's email logins, but I will point out that it is in general not necessary to hack an email account in order to send email using a forged from: address. Spammers do this all the time.

    • An internet expert advises regarding Yahoo and Hotmail email: forging a Yahoo email address and having mail delivery be successful, without hacking the actual account, should be trivial, although the expert has not tested this personally. Hotmail is not as easy as Yahoo in this regard, and would require a different process due to "SPF" rules, but should still be doable by someone with a strong understanding of email delivery. In both the cases of Yahoo and Hotmail, it should not be assumed, without examination of the original emails by an expert, that the emails were generated from the account holder's own account. While it is possible that the emails were sent from the account holder's account due to a password or other security compromise, it is not the only way to do it.
    • An expert may actually be able to make a conclusive determination regarding the specific Hotmail email in question due to the way Hotmail handles its mail delivery. If the affected NCCG member desires to learn more about the origin of the suspicious emails, especially the Hotmail one, he may wish to consult an internet security or email expert.

    The claim that I was aware that this person was going to show up at the NCCG compound for a visit is false. [We'll believe you.] I do not know who this person is, and therefore cannot have been aware that he was coming for a visit at that time.

    The statements "Is he tapping our telephone conversations too? What sort of lengths is he actually going to? The man is either virulently malicious or mentally ill. " are fantasy. [Again, doubt is expressed in the question "Is . . .?"]

    Christopher Warren's repeated claim that Rick Ross is in some way investigating NCCG or participating in my investigation is false. [We have other reasons to believe Ross is involved.]

    His statement that someone paid for my Swedish translation is false. [Note the word "presumably".]

    		 This is a post made by Christopher Warren on nccgcybercommunity about me.

    Reply
    Recommend  Message 47 of 48 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 6/4/2006 10:11 PM
    Update
    So that our readers can be satisfied about the criminal activities of  "Mr.'Cult' Concern" one of our current Swedish visitors here (whom I will call 'Anders') had his email account hacked into and was sent two emails sent from his own two different email accounts at Yahoo and Hotmail addresses containing warnings about NCCG and links to nccg_concern before he arrived. He was invited here by telephone by one of our members (who does not live at HQ) some weeks ago and we had no knowledge of his visit until hours before he arrived.
    'Anders' actually checked us out with a 'Cult Watch' group some months before he visited us and arrived here, like the visitor in the previous post (though he was
    'deprogrammed'), having carefully made his own investigations. Now that he has seen us and how we are, he has since apologised for entertaining doubts as to our integrity (though we told him none were required since we believe people have the right to carefully check us out). He is not a member of NCCG and belongs to another Christian Church.
    Mr. 'Cult' Concern and/or his allies are dangerous criminals. Too afraid to be identified and made accountable, or have his credentials checked, he has either himself hacked into others' email accounts or employed others to do it for him. How, indeed, we need to ask ourselves, does this man know about the people visiting here in advance? Is he tapping our telephone conversations too? What sort of lengths is he actually going to? The man is either virulently malicious or mentally ill.
    As I have said in previous posts, he will be exposed - he and his allies - for the truth will prevail. In a word, Yahweh wins and he loses.
    If you would like to know how Mr. Concern and his allies like Rick Ross operate, see:
    http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/rossr1.html
    And whilst I have good reason that other forces are at work "behind" Ross, Concern and allies, I will only make mention here of their anonymous 'front man' (Concern) who has presumably been generously funded by someone to translate his defamatory website into Swedish.

    Christopher Warren's claim that he was at this time "getting close" to "exposing" me (IE: identifying my real name) is believed to be false. He had at this time, to my knowledge, failed to contact anyone who does know my identity, and he and a cult member have hinted in another post about a person they believe I am, but are wrong about. [Again, I will hand you the benefit of the doubt, but for someone who hides behind a website without at least making themselves identifiable, there's no way either way I can confirm this. For all I know, you could be straight out lying.]

    The claim that the person identified by him as "A satanist who called herself 'Anna'" is in any way "working with" me or "helping" me is false. I have never communicated with this person, have not received information from this person, and have not heard of this person before he made me aware of her.[Again, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.]

    It is also impossible that this person is helping me but I am unaware of who it is. I have not encountered or been assisted by former members of NCCG's message boards as he describes. As mentioned elsewhere, this has primarily been a one-man operation.[What do you mean by "primarily"? The word seems to entertain the thought that others did help "a bit". Whether you know who they are or not.]

    The claim that "The net is closing in on nccg_concern and his allies" was at this time false. In reality, Christopher Warren had been making statements that suggest he was on the completely wrong track. [Then Warren was simply wrong -- I don't expect him to be a perfect person.]




    		 This is a post made by Christopher C. Warren in nccgcybercommunity about me.

    Reply
    Recommend  Message 49 of 50 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 6/5/2006 2:47 PM
    Identifiying nccg_concern and his allies
    I mentioned in an earlier post that we are getting close to exposing nccg_concern and his/her allies.
    About three years ago the group was infiltrated by a satanist who called herself 'Anna' and posed as a deliverance minister at DFD. Her attacks were subtle at first and she sounded like a genuine believer. She hacked into the MSN account of one our clients who went under the nic 'Charli' and even posted in her name (see first post below). We have dug up some of her old posts, two of which which are reproduced here, because we have discovered she is working with nccg_concern:
    From: Charli  (Original Message) Sent: 21/08/2003 19:22
    Hi all.....
    Just wanted to say hello. Good to see another group discussing finding Freedom in Christ.
    There are many people trapped in boundage and we as believers have an obligation to share with others the power of God to set them free.
    I look forward to getting to know you all. Yahweh bless.
    Peace and smiles......Charli
    From: Anna  (Original Message) Sent: 12/12/2003 16:05
    Hi All,
    Just wanted to say hello. My name is Anna and I just recently came across your group. I am glad to be a part of it and look forward to fellowshipping and learning with you all.
    I do have a little "Food for Thought". If Satan has already been disarmed, as the bible says - what then do you all believe the spiritual fight is about? I personally lean toward it being about removing scales from blinded eyes and exposing the lies of our enemy. I don't believe that is a complicated process, concerning Satan that. He is defeated, end of story; however dealing with past hurts and lies based on those past hurts does sometimes take some time.
    Any thoughts?
    God's Blessings,
    Anna
    I can confirm that she is back in our groups under a different nic and has been helping Mr.Concern. She is a satanist.
    The net is closing in on nccg_concern and his allies. The truth will out.

    I will not address Christopher Warren's claim that he has identified my religious beliefs. I have deliberately never included this kind of information on my web site, as it is not meaningful information to an objective reader of my report.  [Personally, I can attest that we believe in the Golden Rule -- "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." Since you so vehemently pick at our religion, we should likewise have the right to evaluate your worldview and see if it holds logical merit. Afterall, it is through your worldview your site is framed. All I can gather is that its largely a secular humanistic one and forces people to see us from a secular humanist perspective. All one has to do is change the frame and the data changes.]

    (Personal comment: based upon my observations of Christopher Warren's writing regarding the history of NCCG, his writings on the nccg.org web site, and his posts in NCCG's message boards, I have come to the conclusion that Christopher Warren's interest in my religious orientation is related solely to his desire to personally attack me in writing for the benefit of NCCG members). [Well, you can likewise be fairly certain we will be honest where your beliefs do hold merit.]

    The meaning intended in the continuation of the sentence "...and anti-Christian like the Rick Ross Institute (so-called) whose goal is to 'deprogram' Christians" is not fully understandable to me. If he is accusing me of being an "anti-christian", and stating that one of the characteristics of an "anti-christian" is that they have a goal of "deprogramming" mainstream christians, this is a false statement about me. Other than this, I cannot assume that I understand exactly what Christopher Warren means by "anti-christian". In a general sense, I deny performing activities which would cause a reasonable person to identify me as an "anti-christian" [As if its completely "reasonable" to listen to Concern. The assumption is made in this sentence.].

    Christopher Warren's claim that a group of people are creating material for my web site is false. In reality, the only person other than myself whose words or writing appear on my web site (other than quoted NCCG material) is the friend who performed the translation, and this person's role was strictly limited to translation. This person did not author any of my web site material directly.

    The claim that the person named "Anna" (who was referenced in another post) contributed in any way to my research or web site is false.

    At the time these statements were made by Christopher Warren (June 5, 2006), I did not know who the person he calls "Z" was. He had not contributed to my research and absolutely wrote no portions of my web site. For additional information regarding later contact which did occur with "Z" (beginning July 18, 2006), see z.html.

    The person who is referenced by Christopher Warren as "a 'believer', who is venting..." has been referenced in other message board posts. I have never communicated with the referenced person, I do not know who he is. The only things I know about him are based on the descriptions of him provided by Christopher Warren and another NCCG member in the message board, and he may have been referenced in later emails received from "Z" (see z.html).

    The claim that the "a 'believer', who is venting..." person wrote part of my web site is false. All of my web site was authored by me, with the obvious exception of quoted NCCG material.

    His claim that he would be revealing my "full identity" proved to be false, he did no such thing.

    I do not understand what he meant by referencing my "hacking aids", but it sounds like part of his continued accusations that I am hacking his email, instant messages, and maybe even telephone conversations. These accusations are false.

    It is not clear to me what Christopher Warren meant when he called me a "a Rick Ross look-alike". For what it is worth, I do not physically resemble Rick Ross and could not be considered an associate of Rick Ross. [I think he reasonably assumed you are using Ross's criteria, as evidenced from the main page on your site and borrowed his worldview.]

    The claim that I will soon have a criminal record, presumably related to my research of NCCG, is believed to be false, because to the best of my knowledge I have not broken any laws during the course of my research.

    		 This is a post made by Christopher C. Warren in nccgcybercommunity that included comments about me.

    Reply
    Recommend  Message 50 of 50 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 6/5/2006 4:25 PM
    We have now discovered Mr.Concern is a non-believer and anti-Christian like the Rick Ross Institute (so-called) whose goal is to 'deprogram' Christians who do not belong to the larger groups who have more economic and political clout (like the Mormons whom Ross & Co. do not classify as a cult - apparently Ross underestimated the Scientologists who were a bit 'bigger' than he thought when they sued him an a cult 'deprogramming' group for kidnapping and won). We also know that there is a group of people working on his website, including the satanist 'Anna' (mentioned in the last post), a man whom I will just call Z for now (we know who he is), a 'believer', who is venting because his pride was upset when we threw him off a group for demeaning women (he is an aspirant polygamist who was planning to 'buy' himself a second wife from a Militia Group in the USA) and who is responsible for the 'anaylsis' and 'critique' of the Olive Branch and possibly the last personal diatribe on Mr.Concern's website, and possible one or two other people.
    As I promised, the whole truth will out. More will be coming including the full identity of Mr.Concern, his hacking aids, and the other criminal riff-raff of his motley crew. As you will see, he is a Rick Ross look-alike, and if he doesn't have a criminal record, the chances are if he continues in this vein that he will soon have one.

    Christopher Warren's comment that the newspaper reporter's primary source of information was my web site was false. It was even independently demonstrated to be false when the newspaper article came out, as the article's content was very different from the content on my web site. [Warren never said the primary source of information was your website. He said he "assumes".]

    The claim that I have never spoken with NCCG members is false. [I thought this was a one man operation?]

    His statement that I have not revealed my identity due to fear of him suing me is false. As I mentioned in another area of this web site, I have not revealed my identity due to concerns about my personal safety. [From the NCCG Mafia?]

    Every single statement on my web site is based upon legally-obtained source material, and I believe I have a very defensible position if I were to ever end up in court. [Down to last names, living arrangements, paternity . . . I wouldn't be surprised if you even had Social Security numbers. Legalities isn't the issue. Ethics are.]

    If I were officially challenged about the content of my web site in a court-like environment, I would present my source material as part of my defense.  I believe that the strength of my source material would prove to a reasonable court [*cough* So a "reasonable" court should automatically side with Concern? *cough* Self-serving bias.] that my internet report represents an accurate description of NCCG based on my research and observations. It should be mentioned that some of my source material would be personally embarrassing for Christopher Warren, and one of the outcomes of such a court case might be my source material becoming public knowledge. Then, there is also the option of bringing in expert witnesses and possibly other kinds of witnesses, if I wanted to hit a home run [I thought this was a one man operation?]. Such a court case would be of keen interest to the Swedish media, the government of Arvika Kommun, and the local Arvika community itself.

    That stuff would cost some money on my part, and at this time I do not know whether or not I could request from the court that Christopher Warren be required to reimburse me for the expenses I incurred during the legal proceedings. If that is indeed the case, the idea of going to court against him sounds intriguing as opposed with scary. [What about the costs due to the emotional damage and turmoil you cause by placing our private information on a website?]

    I do not know if Christopher Warren would actually follow through with trying to sue me, but I am generally not afraid of him attempting it. I would spend the money required for my defense and see the outcome; why not, you know? For the reasons stated earlier, I believe that him suing me would be a tactical mistake on his part, and he would essentially screw himself if he tried it.
    		 Christopher Warren sent a large number of comments to a newspaper reporter in Karlstad, Sweden. He also posted these comments in the nccgcybercommunity message board. Within these comments, he included the following paragraph which made statements about me.

    3. I am assuming, with some justification, I believe, from the way your questions were formulated and the material you chose to discuss, that your primary source of 'information' was a newly created anti-NCCG website called 'NCCG_concern'. Since this is the sole website of its kind that we are aware of, I assume this is where you get your perspective of us (as you did say on the telephone to me that if I did not respond you would be writing an article based on "other sources"). I should inform you that the author of this site not only has never met with us or spoken with us, but refuses to be identified and make himself accountable, refuses to name the names of alleged complianants or supply substantiatable information, because he knows I will sue and expose him if he does. As a researcher myself, trained as a scientist at Oxford University, both in the biochemical and historical fields, I am more than aware of what constitutes bona fide research and what does not.
    This contains at least one outright lie by Christopher C. Warren, and he makes a number of statements that would tend to lead the reader toward believing some things which I understand to be untrue based upon my research of NCCG.

    Based on my source material, I believe the following statement by Christopher C. Warren to be an outright lie:

    "We have never asked or suggested that anyone should ever 'join' us let alone visit our so-called 'compound' because our goal is not membership statistics but bringing souls to Christ....".

    My source material positively indicates that at least two people were specifically targeted by Christopher C. Warren, through his use of inappropriate, undue influence, for relocation to the NCCG compound as permanent residents. There is additional evidence that two other people have probably been influenced using the same type of inappropriate, undue influence. More details regarding these situations are not being discussed at this time due to privacy concerns. [Then why should we believe it? You don't believe in Satanic Ritual Abuse due to lack of "credible evidence" when we don't provide information due to "privacy concerns". Yet you say it outright doesn't exist. You have given me reason to believe you cannot be persuaded on the matter. Therefore, I take your "details" with a grain of salt until you can prove them.]

    Christopher Warren makes a few statements within the paragraph that are intended to make the group look harmless. These statements involve the interactions the group has with its many "fringe" members, IE: people who are only moderately involved with NCCG, usually on an internet-only basis, or may include brief personal visits. Christopher Warren appears to imply in those passages that either that:
    1. core NCCG members do not exist in a differentiated way from fringe members, or
    2. a group that does not ruthlessly attempt to recruit all of it's fringe members into core membership is by definition not dangerous.
    Either of these conclusions would be false.
    • Regarding point #1 above: My source material positively indicates that core membership in NCCG is quite different from fringe membership. A key factor in this is that Christopher Warren and the most deeply-involved core members engage in activities and beliefs of which fringe members are deliberately not made aware. [So did Messiah and His disciples have inner teachings of which they didn't make the outside world immediately aware of (read Luke 8:10) and the writer of Hebrews didn't reveal information his readers weren't ready for (Hebrews 4:11) -- I guess they were crazy whacked-out cultists. Who knows? Maybe time will change our "cult" status and we'll one day be a majorly established religion with thousands of denominations and sects. It seems "time" and not "truth" erases all traces of "cultism" to the secular humanist mind.] Some of these activities and beliefs do not match up with some of the basic expectations of Christianity, and would be anticipated to alienate the majority of fringe members for that reason.
    • Regarding point #2: Different dangerous groups utilize fringe members in different capacities. While it is true that many of the largest, most high-profile dangerous groups use fringe membership only as a springboard to core membership, this is expressly not the case with all such groups. Some groups are selective about who they target for core membership, basing that selection on the person's age, sex, marital status, and/or other things which make the member more appropriate for core membership. NCCG is selective about who it recruits into core membership, some of the criteria used in this selection have been identified with reasonable certainty within my source material but cannot be discussed at this time due to privacy concerns. 
    • A further note: people in NCCG who are expected to remain fringe members appear to serve a specialized purpose within NCCG. My impression is that they are a source of psychological support for Christopher Warren, who more or less believes that he has a calling from God to teach others the details and correctness of his religious beliefs. They may also be seen as a potential source of funding, as I have seen requests for donations made which were directed at the fringe member base. Additionally, my research into Christopher Warren's activities both before his creation of NCCG and afterward have made me wonder if he has issues with hypergraphia (compulsive writing).[I'm sure your extensive writing on us could be called "hypergraphia" also.] In that event, the knowledge that there is a large base of fringe members reading his voluminous written material may have psychological appeal to him. [As it does you. I'm faily certain the reason this site has been slapped together is so you can get the recognition for being the first to truly "expose" us.] I am not qualified to evaluate whether or not Christopher Warren actually has issues with hypergraphia, so this remains only a hunch. [But a useful ploy to make him seem mentally ill.] 


    		 This is a post that references my web site as part of a "whole slander campaign" (does not reference me directly)

    First  Previous  2-3 of 3  Next  Last 
    Reply
    Recommend  Message 2 of 3 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 7/18/2006 10:21 AM
    I thought a few statistics might be worth inserting here to explode this myth that is being perpetrated.
    Our internet chats rarely attract more than a dozen people each week, usually half that number. We have never asked or suggested that anyone should ever 'join' us let alone visit our so-called 'compound' because our goal is not membership statistics but bringing souls to Christ so that they can lead a life steered by Him in His freedom (of course that is hard to explain to a brainwashed atheist who sees religion through stereotypic lenses). The one person who did visit our home briefly did so at his own insistence and has equally freely returned to his home country. Of our regulars, nearly all have stayed with their denominational groupings where we naturally bless them. To be sure we point out errors we believe that their churches may have. We never pressurise them to leave them. Indeed, we are encourging one regular to attend an evangelical Protestant Bible School with no connections to us whatsoever (and would doubtless me hostile to us were it to know of our beliefs).
    This whole slander campaign will collapse because it is built on air. The harm these people have done will pile up on their own heads.

    Christopher Warren's statement about a "vicious smear campaign" that included both internet and the press can only reference this "nccg_concern" web site (which received extensive updates on May 20 and June 2, 2006) , and a newspaper article published by the Nya Wermlands-Tidningen (a local Swedish newspaper) on June 10, 2006. [We have evidence that covens were involved in the latter, but can't reveal this due to "privacy concerns", as Concern calls them.]

    His claim that these two developments were the result of an effort by "covens" (groups of satan-worshippers) is false. [Really? Documented IM convos I've had with insiders in these covens proves that at least in regards to NWT, its true.] I'm uniquely aware of the driving forces behind the creation of my own web site, and additionally, have become aware of the reasons behind the initial research and subsequent publication of the newspaper article. [*cough* Do you trust EVERYONE you speak to?] Influence by "covens" absolutely does not match up, by any stretch of imagination, with the facts in either of these cases. [Although if I were a Satanist news reporter, I don't think I'd tell you I was a Satanist either. In fact, I would probably come off as very professional. And even if it wasn't him in particular, I am 99.8% certain someone else was pulling the strings or pushing the article to be written.]

    		 This paragraph was included in a section of the nccgcybercommunity web site named  "Urgent_Needs!". It has every indication of having been written by Christopher Warren, although it's authorship is unsigned. It contains a few statements about my web site.

    "B. Media Deffamation: As most of our readers know, much of our ministry involving helping those most Christians won't touch, and which most of the world refuses to believe exists, helping the victims of Satanic Ritual Abuse. This summer the covens, through their agents and those coming under their influence, began a vicious smear campaign against us both on the internet and in the press which you can follow in this Group in these two threads :...."
    Christopher Warren appears to be saying that I have no functional morals, and this is false. [No, Mr. Warren said you have no "self-declared morals" -- i.e. you hide them.]

    His claim that I am an "atheist-on-a-mission to 'rescue people from religion'" is false. This description can only apply to activities, and my activities and behaviors could not be described by a reasonable person as matching this description.[Again, notice how he expects "reasonable" people to agree with him.]

    He appears to be implying (again) that Rick Ross or people associated with him (referenced as "Ross & Co.") are in some way assisting my research efforts. If this is the case, it is a false statement. [But Ross does allow you to use his boards as a stomping grounds.]

    His claim that I am "not interested in the truth or people" is false. [Then why did you attack us and post up private information? You surely don't seem interested in us AS PEOPLE.]

    He references someone as "a polygamy-hopeful man associated with 'Christian' militias (who are prepared to insurrect violently against the government...." as having been "recruited" as one of my site contributors. At the time he made this statement (July 20, 2006), I had not made contact with a person whose life situation appears to me to  match that description, and he had not contributed to my web site. A side note: I have recently (July 18) been contacted by a person who is referenced by Christopher Warren as "Z", and this description by Christopher Warren could potentially be referencing one of his associates (but whom at this time I have still never communicated with, directly or indirectly).

    The further implication that the above-mentioned "polygamy-hopeful man" is a "co-writer" for my web site is false. [Until you used his e-mails.]

    The statement that he provided some kind of "objective fuel" to me is false.

    His claim that I have "an atheistic anti-religious agenda" is false. My working definition of "agenda" in my assertation is supplied below, as indicated by www.dictionary.com:

    • A list or program of things to be done or considered: “They share with them an agenda beyond the immediate goal of democratization of the electoral process” (Daniel Sneider).


    		 This post was made by Christopher Warren in the nccgcybercommunity message board in the thread:

    http://groups.msn.com/nccgcybercommunity
    /nccgcritics.msnw?action=get_message&
    mview=0&ID_Message=6806 . It contains statements about me.

    Reply
    Recommend  Message 5 of 7 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 7/20/2006 12:39 PM
    Mr. Concern has no self-declared morals and as an atheist-on-a-mission to 'rescue people from religion' (the 'opium of the people', no doubt) wouldn't care about Yah'shua's words anyway. His comrade-in-arms (Ross & Co.)  is more than willing to kidnap people, brainwash and force them to recant their beliefs by force so he is guilty by association, his distancing techniques notwithstanding. This is a man not interested in the truth or people, like Ross himself, who, when psychoalysed, revealed disconnectedness from people's feelings.
    For one, he has happily recruited as one of the contributors of his site a polygamy-hopeful man associated with 'Christian' militias (who are prepared to insurrect violently against the government, who don't register their children's births, etc.) who has boasted in front of many people, as well as leaving a written record of the same, of his intention to purchase (with money - he stated the 'price' which these wommen's father was selling his daughters for) a few extra women for himself from said militias. We have had his tearful wife, whose feelings he has trampled all over, coming to us for ministry and help. When we told him that his conduct was reprehensible, along with his demeaning attitude towards women, he left our association in high dudgeon breathing threatenings of revenge, insisting that his wife could either accept his intention to force new wives on her, or leave, even when she was pregnant!
    This ministry does not recruit for polygamy wannebees - we merely want people informed of the biblical teachings so that they can be prepared for it when Yah'shua returns. We believe it will be the majority practice for Israel but not the world (which we believe will be monogamous) once a certain level of spirituality has been attained. We accept polygamous groups coming from cultures where it is practiced and normative (such as Africa) and the occasional family from other cultures where it is plain that all the parties involved want it and love it, and no one has been coerced against their will. We are totally against the spirit behind the so called 'Christian polygamy movement' which is fuelled by men's lust and power drives. Mr. Concern's co-writer is one such man. It was our total rejection of his spirit that caused him to turn against us and give Mr. Concern his 'objective' fuel.
    I could give information on the others who are 'stirring his pot' but I only refrain from doing so because there are confidences involved. Unlike Mr.'Concern' (what an oxymoron) I do have principles. What's ironic is the paranoia he accuses me of he has himself fuelled in others who have complained as a result of his misrepresentations. But I doubt he has a conscience or could care less because he has an atheistic anti-religious agenda.
    A time will, however, be coming when may well expose Mr. Concern's 'informants' but not until he has enough metaphorical rope to hang himself with, unless he chooses to do the honourable thing and repent, and our clients agree. Not that I think we need to and I would personally rather that they came to a knowledge of the truth and found freedom - that goes for Mr.Concern himself too.
    We in any case leave this matter in Yahweh's hands and get on with life. There will always be people who are waylaid by deliberate scare-stories, which are then propagated around the net by cyber gossip and sensationalist journalists only interested in making a scoop; there will always be those who don't want to know the truth (because then they become responsible for the conduct of their lives, and most don't want to be), and there will be those driven by dark urges who just want a kick out of rubbishing people. We have to live with lies and malicious intent because these things will always be in the world. Those who want to find out the truth can, the rest must believe what they want.

    When I read Christopher Warren's response to the NCCG member's question, I could not help but wonder if it was intended as a joke. [It was. And for the record, my post is the one above Warren's.] The original question appeared to be presented in seriousness, and there are a number of members in his board who will be affected by his saying things like this, even if it were presented in jest. For this reason. I have to address these statements individually.

    The list of things I am supposed to believe about this type of NCCG member is shown below. My actual position on the use of each item is stated after each one. Many of these positions can also be verified by their inclusion or non-inclusion within the research areas of this nccg_concern web site.

    • Love-bombing: I don't know
    • Sleep deprivation: no
    • Starvation: no
    • Brainwashing: appears to depend on the victim's demographic
    • Isolationism: physical reference: compound-dwelling members only, not fringe members [Please. I was free to walk off anytime I wanted to. I even ventured into the Swedish woods for a private wilderness trek. We likewise, as a group, often took walks together. Anyone who actually visits "The Compound" (as Concern calls it) will see that its full of normal people with normal lives.]
    • Stupidity: no
    • Torture: no
    • dessication: this word does not appear at www.dictionary.com.
    • defamation: I don't know
    • delusion: some members have been observed appearing to experience this as a result of their NCCG involvement
    • hypnosis: "The Garden" is an altered state of consciousness that resembles hypnosis. [To the secularist mind, certainly. But as I said, I cannot convince you of the Garden. I can only admonish you to be open to seeing things beyond the five senses.] Furthermore, it is the nature of Christopher Warren's writings to be able to induce a hypnotic state. [As your writings produce a suggestive state -- especially since you most prominently put your refutations before Warren's posts. The only reason I've been unphased is because I actually know and understand the type of person Warren is and likewise understand that you are totally misrepresenting NCCG doctrine.] So, the general answer to this is a "yes".
    • "antiestablishmentarianism": I don't know
    • slaver-labor: I don't know
    • false-guilt: I don't know
    • paranoia: some members have been observed appearing to experience this due to their NCCG involvement [Paranoia, where hinted, is discouraged.]
    • scare-tactics: some members have been observed appearing to experience this [But then again, you said in your prophecy articles that God is all about making people feel happy about themselves.]
    • theism: nonsensical use of the word in this context
    • Christianity: nonsensical use of the word in this context
    • political incorrectness: I do not understand the use of the term in this context
    • religionism: nonsensical use of the word in this context
    • drug addition: not to my knowledge
    • insanity:
      • does he mean that the NCCG members are victims of an insane person? My answer: possibly, if Christopher Warren is insane, which I do not know but I cannot help but wonder. [At least he's honest here.]
      • does he mean that they themselves are victims of insanity due to their NCCG involvement? At least one or possibly as many as three people are documented in my source material as having had mental health issues exacerbated by their NCCG involvement. [By whose criteria?] This could, regarding those few individuals, qualify as a "yes", but is not the case as a whole for all NCCG members both fringe and core.
    • banality: I don't know
    • imprisonment: 
      • There is source material regarding an incident in which a member had physical actions taken against him/her, and the physical action was of the type which would be expected to have restricted the person's freedom to choose to remove him/herself from an immediate situation involving a very-involved NCCG member. The details in the source material are limited, and it represented either a bad domestic incident or an NCCG-affected incident (which one I have not been able to determine at this time). If this incident was indeed an NCCG-affected incident, I believe it would apply exclusively to one particular demographic, whereas on the other hand, a different demographic is indicated to not experience anything resembling this. I consider my source material as being incomplete in regard to this particular incident (which may be considered to resemble "imprisonment" within the context of the specific time it occurred), and indicative of a "no" answer regarding the other demographic.
      • I am not aware of individuals within NCCG being held in conditions from which they do not have frequent opportunities to physically remove themselves. This definition is more in-line with the typical understanding of the word "imprisonment".
    • liquorice: this item makes me suspect he is joking. [Because he is.]
    • oil stains: this item makes me suspect he is joking.
    • malice: I don't know
    • forced-feeding: I don't know
    • drowning trauma: no
    • nationalism: no
    • socialism: I don't know
    • communism: as referenced as a political system, I don't know. If it was intended in another context, I do not know the details of this and cannot comment due to the word being unexplained.
    • fascism: I don't know
    • alcohol-deprivation: this is nonsensical
    • totalitarianism: as this word relates to governmental systems, it is nonsensical in this context. If it was intended in another context, I do not know the details of this and cannot comment due to the word being unexplained.
    • democracy: as this word relates to governmental systems, it is nonsensical in this context. If it was intended in another context, I do not know the details of this and cannot comment due to the word being unexplained.
    • plutocracy: as this word relates to governmental systems, it is nonsensical in this context. If it was intended in another context, I do not know the details of this and cannot comment due to the word being unexplained.
    • lunacy: see insanity
    • anti-americanism: no
    • forced assimilation: I don't know
    • hatred against atheists: animosity toward atheists as a group has been observed being encouraged within certain NCCG writings, although this is one of those areas where Christopher Warren's writings are contradictory. If this is the intended meaning of that statement. I do not know if the word "hatred" would correctly apply, but inducement of animosity would. [Let's note the "animosity" toward NCCG members your site has caused.]
    • hatred against animists: I don't know
    • genocide: this is nonsensical in this context
    • anarchism: no
    •  persona non grata: no. (definition of "persona non grata" used from www.dictionary.com: Fully unacceptable or unwelcome, especially to a foreign government).

    		 The following series of posts in the nccgcybercommunity message board consists of an NCCG member asking a question about my position regarding certain NCCG members. Christopher Warren then responds with a long list of things.

    It is visible within the thread: http://groups.msn.com/
    nccgcybercommunity/nccgcritics.msnw?action=get_
    message&mview=0&ID_Message=5907 .

    From: MSN Nicknameusername edited due to privacy concerns Sent: 7/21/2006 3:41 AM
    So what does that make me and the other people who have been baptised at "The Compound"?

    Reply
    Recommend  Message 14 of 14 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 7/21/2006 9:37 AM
    A victim of love-bombing, sleep-deprivation, starvation, brainwashing, isolationism, stupidity, torture, dessication, defamation, delusion, hypnosis, antidisestablishmentarianism, slaver-labour, false-guilt, paranoia, scare-tactics, theism, Christianity, political incorrectness, religionism, drug addiction, insanity, banality, imprisonment, liquorice, oil stains, malice, forced-feeding, drowning trauma (baptism), nationalism, socialism, communism, fascism, alcohol-deprivation, totalitarianism, democracy, plutocracy, lunacy, anti-Americanism, forced assimilation, hatred against atheists and animists, genocide, anarchism - in short it makes you persona non grata in the eyes of Mr. Concern and his ten-foot thick solid lead spectacles.


    Christopher Warren does not actually know who I am nor what my religious background is, and I have refused to clarify it for him. It has been demonstrated in a prior incident that his primary reason for wanting to know this kind of thing is so that he can use it as part of further character assassinations directed at me. [Again, the Golden Rule]

    Christopher Warren is probably referencing my new Bible study when he mentions me "quoting the Bible". There is a big difference between "quoting the Bible" and my Bible study, so in this respect, he has lied about the nature of the content on my web site. Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing in my Bible study (or in fact on my web site) that attacks Christianity (although it does conclusively show that Christopher Warren should be regarded as a False Prophet by Bible-believing Christians).["Should" by "Bible-believing Christians"? I love how Mr. Concern makes false assumptions about what people "should" do with his information in order to be "reasonable", "Bible-believing", etc. I have written much on OUR Bible Study section which I BELIEVE (note the difference here) contradicts Concern's criterion according to how I understand Scripture. How reasonable it is or isn't should probably (again, another difference here) be taken on whether or not either of our criterion is Scriptural and which of the two is the MOST Scriptural.]

    It is difficult to understand all of the implications and meanings behind his statements that I attack Christians. My activities could not be judged to "attack Christians" as a category of people or attempt to dismantle their faith of Christianity to them, if that is what he meant.

    Christopher Warren has repeatedly claimed that I have associates who are helping me research NCCG and even wrote parts of my web site (such as a "Satanist" named "Anna", someone named "Z" (now understood to be Chad Zimmerman), and an associate of "Z"). This is a fantasy.

    The negative insinuations contained within this statement are a fantasy: "He evidently has a great deal of time on his hands unless he has been employed by someone to do this (perhaps he's unemployed)." [We do believe you have a great deal of time on your hands. Likewise, Warren never made the accusation you were paid off -- he assumed it was possible.]

    "He goes to a great deal of trouble making, we suppose, websites advertising his anti-website," is a fantasy. [Again, another reasonable assumption on Warren's part, not an accusation.]

    Christopher Warren's statements:

     "He is linked to the Rick Ross Institute whose founder, a Jewish atheist/agnostic (who thinks all Messianic Jews are cultists because you can't be both a Jew and a follower of Yah'shua, says he ... yet does not regard Mormonism as a cult), has been found guilty in American courts of fraud and kidnapping (which he has tried to dismiss on the grounds that those who sued him - the Scientologists - are a cult themselves, therefore somehow 'invalidating' the court decisions as if it matters who instigated proceedings for what is undeniably a series of criminal offences), neither of which he is repentant of and has indictated, in regard to the latter, that he would do it again"

    is fantasy. [But again, Ross does allow you to use his boards as stomping grounds.]
    • I am not linked to Rick Ross.
    • My discussion here is not intended to point out the stupidity of his repeated character assassination of Rick Ross. Clarifying information on those attacks can be found here, or by calling Rick Ross at (201) 434-9234, or by emailing him at info@rickross.com. This is extremely easy to figure out for yourself, people.

    The statement:
    "He refuses to identify himself or enter into a debate with anyone here unless they are showing signs of doubting this work (the potential stragglers), which he has been offered more than once, and keeps incognito on the pretext that it might endanger his life (NCCG Maffia no doubt). "

    is jam-packed with lies mixed with two statements of truth, making for the worst kind of lie.

    It is correct that:
    • I refuse to identify myself
    • The main reason that I remain "incognito" has been due to concerns for my personal safety
    • I do not respond to communication directly from Christopher C. Warren
    However, these lies are a different story:
    • The statement that I do not engage NCCG members in communication unless they are the "potential stragglers" is demonstrably false. In the past, I have emailed other NCCG members due to my genuine concern [as evidence by your tone to me -- as if I was some naive little cult follower who didn't know better] for them and who were showing no such "signs", and at a minimum, they will note that this claim is bogus. Additionally, I have also recently emailed Derek Rumpler, who would not be considered "straggling". [Because I don't believe you have brought up a reasonable case.]
    • Christopher Warren appears to imply that I have rejected debate with NCCG members on a repeated basis. This is false. An invitation for honest communication with NCCG members regarding NCCG's beliefs and practices has been on my web site almost since it's beginning, on the contact information page. This must be contrasted, however, with NCCG members who email me pretending to be someone else, or NCCG members who contact me with the sole intention of helping Christopher Warren generate factoids for character assassinations.

    Christopher Warren's statement that "He is desperate to find someone who can 'expose' to prove his bogus theories." is a lie. I already have definitive proof of all of the statements on my web site, including those made in fastfacts.html, and Christopher Warren himself even knows this.

    These statements :
    • "has sifted through literally hundreds if not thousands of articles, and if he can find one fault, blows it out of all proportion."
    • "In short, if a Christian makes an error (which we all do, of course), we are branded as 'dangerous cultists'"
    are a 100% false description of my research web site and it's conclusions. I use large blocks of information as source material, not small slip ups in grammar or word use. See beliefs.html for proof of this.

    Please note that mistakes within statements presented to be "prophecies" remain inexcusable in the context of the Bible. [But opinions are permitted. Paul did this frequently, especially in 1 Corinthians 7, after presenting several statements he stated were his mere opinion. And then, in the last verse, he seems unsure whether or not he has the Ruach haQodesh (Holy Spirit). I've often been able to seperate Warren's opinions from his actual prophecies.]

    The statements "He works on the bases of numerous false assumptions and has little grasp of the difference between the Old and New Covenants, jusging us on the basis of religious criteria that were canceleld by the cross (which he doesn't believe in)" is false.

    This gives me the hunch that Christopher Warren may be telling his members that the Biblical requirement to not remove False Prophets from your midst is no longer in effect. [Read the Bible Study which was largely written by me. I presented this case to Warren and it is for this reason we believe your criteria to be flawed.]If this is the case, I encourage any people who have been told this to seek out religious teaching from someone other than the actual believed-False-Prophet in regard to this determination. [Yep. They come to me.] It is only natural that a False Prophet would have an argument against the position that he is, indeed, a False Prophet.

    The statement "His world view does not allow for the supernatural which is perhaps his greatest assumption because all supernatural phenomena are 'explained' as various forms of psychosis" is false. [And yet you continuely make a mockery of the Garden, something you don't understand, and state its a form of hypnosis when those who have seen it and experienced it will insist it is not.]

    The statement "Certainly he does not judge by the standards he judges himself by which is, in my opinion, the only criterion that can be accepted when two people of different belief systems come into disagreement to debate (not that he actually debates) except with fellow atheists, pagans and uninfomed Christians he hopes to influence." has confused me but the gist of it sounds false. [I.E. The Golden Rule. If you're going to judge us on your criteria, why don't you judge yourself? And why do you refuse to test the Bible on your same criteria? Is it because you know that as soon as you do, your criteria will be seen as sloppy, because the same criteria you often use to judge us would also disprove the Bible, if at all possible?]

    The statement "Answering him, even with a bit of humour, results in automatic dissection and analysis of every word we speak with rigorous definitions from his dictionary (his own bible)." is a misrepresentation of my intentions. He is referring to my response to the comments shown in table row 10 of this web page (one table row above this one). The reasons I felt it was necessary to respond to that set of accusations is explained there. [And they have been noted.]


         		Christopher Warren made these statements about me in the groups.msn.com/nccgcybercommunity MSN group.

    From: MSN NicknameCommunity_Moderator Sent: 7/29/2006 11:32 AM
    He is an agnostic or atheist but does not mind quoting the Bible (which he doesn't believe in) to attack Christians in an attempt to dismantle their faith. Either he himself or friends of his are in this room actively trying to lead people away from this ministry. He has devoted an entire website to discrediting this work, spends hours every day sifting through what I write (with what can only be described as 'fundamantalist-atheist evangelistic zeal' - though he nowhere points to a philosophy of life which he subscribes to which would be a replacement for the Christianity he spends all his time debunking) and the conversations on this board, and I suspect emails most of the people here even though a rule of membership in this club is that you do not email or contact any member here without first posting and asking their permission. He evidently has a great deal of time on his hands unless he has been employed by someone to do this (perhaps he's unemployed). He goes to a great deal of trouble making, we suppose, websites advertising his anti-website, and either directly himself or through allies, goes posting in Christian, Pagan and Atheist discussion boards spreading his anti-NCCG Gospel. He is linked to the Rick Ross Institute whose founder, a Jewish atheist/agnostic (who thinks all Messianic Jews are cultists because you can't be both a Jew and a follower of Yah'shua, says he ... yet does not regard Mormonism as a cult), has been found guilty in American courts of fraud and kidnapping (which he has tried to dismiss on the grounds that those who sued him - the Scientologists - are a cult themselves, therefore somehow 'invalidating' the court decisions as if it matters who instigated proceedings for what is undeniably a series of criminal offences), neither of which he is repentant of and has indictated, in regard to the latter, that he would do it again. Had the rôles been reversed and I was the atheist his actions against me would have been called a 'witch hunt'. He refuses to identify himself or enter into a debate with anyone here unless they are showing signs of doubting this work (the potential stragglers), which he has been offered more than once, and keeps incognito on the pretext that it might endanger his life (NCCG Maffia no doubt).  He is desperate to find someone who can 'expose' to prove his bogus theories. He has never had one positive thing to say about myself or this ministry, has sifted through literally hundreds if not thousands of articles, and if he can find one fault, blows it out of all proportion. He works on the bases of numerous false assumptions and has little grasp of the difference between the Old and New Covenants, jusging us on the basis of religious criteria that were canceleld by the cross (which he doesn't believe in). In short, if a Christian makes an error (which we all do, of course), we are branded as 'dangerous cultists'. His world view does not allow for the supernatural which is perhaps his greatest assumption because all supernatural phenomena are 'explained' as various forms of psychosis. Certainly he does not judge by the standards he judges himself by which is, in my opinion, the only criterion that can be accepted when two people of different belief systems come into disagreement to debate (not that he actually debates) except with fellow atheists, pagans and uninfomed Christians he hopes to influence.
    He has wasted a great deal of our time and energy so we have decided to basically move on and answer any honest questions that people having read his site may ask of us. Answering him, even with a bit of humour, results in automatic dissection and analysis of every word we speak with rigorous definitions from his dictionary (his own bible). If you have any queries, feel free to post here.  For a summary of our policy in how we handle such people, and in particular satanists who are the real moving forcve behind all the opposition we have been receiving this last year, please see:
    http://groups.msn.com/NCCGCyberCommunity/nccgcritics.msnw?action=get_message&
    mview=0&ID_Message=5197&LastModified=4675571946562480716



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    This article is copyright © 2006 Nccg_Concerned except citations from critiqued material